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Van den Hul Carbon Speaker Cables

ORIENT_PIRATE

Wammer
Wammer
Apr 30, 2008
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Gloucester, , United
Jordan Acoustics are selling a set of Van den Hul ‘The Third’ carbon speaker cables at present at £995 (less than a third of the retail at £3135 when new).

Has anyone heard or used these massive diameter all carbon speaker cables? Comes in a flight case!

VDH on his website claims:-

“Concluding, we simply state that The THIRD ® Mk II is the best loudspeaker cable available in the world;

Considering its price level and its qualities The THIRD ® Mk II outperforms many extremely exotic and expensive loudspeaker cables, and all of them when gradual time-degradation factors are considered. Regarding its unique combination of properties The THIRD ® Mk II for certain is a solid and lasting investment.”

http://www.vandenhul.com/products/cables/speaker-cables/single-lead/the-third-r-mk-ii-metal-free-and-halogen-free

 

mmar

Wammer
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Jun 16, 2008
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mick
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
Never heard them though the marketing comments have a very familiar ring

I would add I wouldn't get to excited about the price reduction it's not uncommon to find exotic cables of less than a third of retail.!

 

mikedefacto

Wammer
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Aug 1, 2005
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How is it better than my van damme? Considering most of the music we listen to has a high probability of being recorded using van damme (or similar) cables, whats the point in anything "better"?

 

Tel

Wammer
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Aug 13, 2006
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There was a thread some time ago when someone made a set of interconnects from spark plug leads and did a comparison.

No idea what to search for though or if it still exists.

 

ORIENT_PIRATE

Wammer
Wammer
Apr 30, 2008
89
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Gloucester, , United
There was a thread some time ago when someone made a set of interconnects from spark plug leads and did a comparison.No idea what to search for though or if it still exists.
Bet they sounded 'champion'!

Now back to my question..... who has heard or used them?

 

Leonard Smalls

Wammer
Wammer
Aug 14, 2005
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Shropshire Borders,
Bearing in mind that carbon (assuming amorphous C or graphite as I doubt that VdH discover Graphene...) has a resisitivity around 10000x that of copper or silver, you may be looking at an actual impedance for your carbon cable actually approaching that of your speakers. Which may be a problem - if nowt else they might make your speakers sound quite a bit quieter!

 

ORIENT_PIRATE

Wammer
Wammer
Apr 30, 2008
89
1
0
Gloucester, , United
Bearing in mind that carbon (assuming amorphous C or graphite as I doubt that VdH discover Graphene...) has a resisitivity around 10000x that of copper or silver, you may be looking at an actual impedance for your carbon cable actually approaching that of your speakers. Which may be a problem - if nowt else they might make your speakers sound quite a bit quieter!
Interesting you mentioned graphine. Nice little video to watch here:-


 

Leonard Smalls

Wammer
Wammer
Aug 14, 2005
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Shropshire Borders,
Apparently 0.07ohms per metre, not too high resistance. Must be lightweight though.
That would be proper chunky cable, if 0.07ohms/m is right...

Assuming the resistivity is 3.6x10-5, and for 1m, resistance=resistivity/cross-sectional area, the csa of a graphite cable with that resistance/m would be 5cm2!

A 5mm2 cable would have a resistance of nearer 7ohms/m...

 

Tony_J

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That would be proper chunky cable, if 0.07ohms/m is right...Assuming the resistivity is 3.6x10-5, and for 1m, resistance=resistivity/cross-sectional area, the csa of a graphite cable with that resistance/m would be 5cm2!

A 5mm2 cable would have a resistance of nearer 7ohms/m...
I'm guessing it may be some kind of carbon fibre composite but so far I haven't managed to pin down the electrical characteristics of CF online...

 

Leonard Smalls

Wammer
Wammer
Aug 14, 2005
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Shropshire Borders,
I'm guessing it may be some kind of carbon fibre composite but so far I haven't managed to pin down the electrical characteristics of CF online...
From what I can find out it depends entirely on what substrates are used, and how densely packed the filaments are.

But the crystalline structure is basically much the same as that of graphite, so you'd expect similar resistivity.

 

hifinutt

Wammer
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Dec 23, 2007
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phil
HiFi Trade?
  1. Yes
van den hul first ultimate can be one of the best interconnects for transparency and makes superb digital cable

having used vdh many times i would be well tempted by those speaker cables but always good to chat over with other vdh users ,

 
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ORIENT_PIRATE

Wammer
Wammer
Apr 30, 2008
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Gloucester, , United
Found a link to the speaker wire in question. A glowing report on its sound from the user below.

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?30522-My-High-End-Hi-Fi-Set-Up

User quotes:-

Van den Hul was a choice made years ago when a friend lent me their First Ultimate, it was from that point I looked deeper into the brand, they have some very good innovative products, which steer away from the norm, but I was generally very much interested in their carbon leads as they never imposed any character of their own, but allowed the music to flow with all the detail, resolution, body and soul. The introduction of The Third speaker cable was a total revelation, I had been using Cable Talk 3 (I think), but this all-carbon cable was so different and on a completely different level.

The Third allowed me insight into recordings details and resolutions never heard before, decay of recording halls, airy, treble so seamless in its integration it was like the music was as a whole and also fully intact with no distinct treble to speak-of, the mid-range so pure and uncoloured, with holographic energy and expression, together with a good tight bass with detail and rhythm, music had many layers, once compressed, now open and laid out with a sense of space, the system disappears. Each instrument occupies their own space and with it the presentation provides a relative volume to each other. Tonally, that Third was like hard-wiring the amplifiers to the speakers, the cable was acoustically invisible

It opened my ears to how coloured metal speaker cables are, you can hear copper for copper, brass for brass, silver for silver, tin for tin, in each instance, a metal cable tended to split-off the treble content making for a distinct top-end s,s,s,t,t,t,s,s,s, etc etc. perhaps this is the so called "skin-effect" audible, but it's just fake and electronic sounding.

Can you tell I like The Third??, nope, I LOVE it and will never ever look back at metal cables.

 

Tony_J

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  1. No
Found a link to the speaker wire in question. A glowing report on its sound from the user below.http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?30522-My-High-End-Hi-Fi-Set-Up

User quotes:-

Van den Hul was a choice made years ago when a friend lent me their First Ultimate, it was from that point I looked deeper into the brand, they have some very good innovative products, which steer away from the norm, but I was generally very much interested in their carbon leads as they never imposed any character of their own, but allowed the music to flow with all the detail, resolution, body and soul. The introduction of The Third speaker cable was a total revelation, I had been using Cable Talk 3 (I think), but this all-carbon cable was so different and on a completely different level.

The Third allowed me insight into recordings details and resolutions never heard before, decay of recording halls, airy, treble so seamless in its integration it was like the music was as a whole and also fully intact with no distinct treble to speak-of, the mid-range so pure and uncoloured, with holographic energy and expression, together with a good tight bass with detail and rhythm, music had many layers, once compressed, now open and laid out with a sense of space, the system disappears. Each instrument occupies their own space and with it the presentation provides a relative volume to each other. Tonally, that Third was like hard-wiring the amplifiers to the speakers, the cable was acoustically invisible

It opened my ears to how coloured metal speaker cables are, you can hear copper for copper, brass for brass, silver for silver, tin for tin, in each instance, a metal cable tended to split-off the treble content making for a distinct top-end s,s,s,t,t,t,s,s,s, etc etc. perhaps this is the so called "skin-effect" audible, but it's just fake and electronic sounding.

Can you tell I like The Third??, nope, I LOVE it and will never ever look back at metal cables.
Sounds like a load of pretentious clap trap to me. "Tonally, that Third was like hard-wiring the amplifiers to the speakers, the cable was acoustically invisible" WTF?? How exactly does "hard wiring the amplifier to the speakers" differ from, er, (hard-)wiring the amp to the speakers with a couple of cables?? What does that sentence even mean? If he really thinks that the "skin effect" or the metal used for the cable is audible to human ears, then he is seriously out to lunch. I'm afraid, to paraphrase, this is just "fake and pretentious-sounding".

 

ORIENT_PIRATE

Wammer
Wammer
Apr 30, 2008
89
1
0
Gloucester, , United
Darn.. one user review found and he obviously likes what he hears (even though he technically unknowledgeable) and it turns out he was being "fake and pretentious-sounding".

Lets see if we can find another reviewer ‘who owns the cables’....

 
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Leonard Smalls

Wammer
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Darn.. one user review found and he obviously likes what he hears (even though he technically unknowledgeable) and it turns out he was being "fake and pretentious-sounding". Lets see if we can find another reviewer ‘who owns the cables’....
He definitely technically unknowledgable...

Skin Effect doesn't occur until radio frequencies are reached!

However, I suppose that the good things you can say about carbon as a speaker cable conductor are:

1) it has a fractionally lower phase delay than copper (and I mean fractionally)

2) resistance decreases with temperature (a bit); but as it's getting on for 10000x more resistive than copper that's not necessarily a good thing

Still, carbon is a much better material for electrodes used in electrolysis, due to its lower chemical reactivity.

But if you've spent £995 (saving £2k!) on a cable, it's bound to sound better, or you'll feel you've wasted the equivalent of a 2nd hand SME 4!

 

Tony_J

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Mar 4, 2013
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  1. No
He definitely technically unknowledgable...Skin Effect doesn't occur until radio frequencies are reached!

However, I suppose that the good things you can say about carbon as a speaker cable conductor are:

1) it has a fractionally lower phase delay than copper (and I mean fractionally)

2) resistance decreases with temperature (a bit); but as it's getting on for 10000x more resistive than copper that's not necessarily a good thing

Still, carbon is a much better material for electrodes used in electrolysis, due to its lower chemical reactivity.

But if you've spent £995 (saving £2k!) on a cable, it's bound to sound better, or you'll feel you've wasted the equivalent of a 2nd hand SME 4!
Yep!

Or alternatively, if you are a magazine reviewer, it had better sound spectacularly good otherwise the manufacturer won't be placing any ads...

 

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