What adds the 3rd dimension?

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Jaffa

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I'm sitting within 4 metres of my speakers, would more distance help or does this gave nothing to do with it.. ?

 

SergeAuckland

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If you mean depth, that's encoded into the recording. It relies on the natural drop-off of high frequencies with distance, so that sources further away from the microphone have less HF than surces close to the microphone. With multi-track, closely miked recordings there's hardly any depth recorded unless it's done in the mix by eq'ing as well as panning individual sources, something hardly ever done.

It does require the reproducer to have a flat frequency response, especially at HF, so that any distance clues are reproduced as intended. Sadly, lots of loudspeakers have an uneven response at HF, which can destroy any distance clues, which are fairly subtle at best.

S

 

awkwardbydesign

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Depth is only the 2nd dimension. I would imagine he means height. Can Jaffa confirm that is what he means?

FWIW, I think that is hard to hear, on some ECM recordings I can hear height, but only if everything is perfect. So not at the moment, then.

 

istari knight

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How are you speakers positioned ? I'm yet to hear a "3d" sound emanate from speakers that are close to the rear wall... If you can live without bass reinforcement pulling them out 3ft or so really helps matters.

 

awkwardbydesign

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How are you speakers positioned ? I'm yet to hear a "3d" sound emanate from speakers that are close to the rear wall... If you can live without bass reinforcement pulling them out 3ft or so really helps matters.
That probably makes sense. I think that any clouding of the sound, whether it is your room acoustics, speaker cabinet resonance, etc, would probably mask the subtle detail that is height information. As I said before, on some (particularly ECM) recordings the ceiling height of the studio is apparent. But if your room acoustics interfere then it all gets muddled. Just my theory why it only works sometimes.

Oh, and valves are essential. :run:

 

nick dartmoor

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Four nice big, tall speakers, set up in a Hafler Network, will definitely address this. Fills the space, absolutely, in a very acoustically pleasing manner.

 

SergeAuckland

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Height in stereo recordings isn't encoded at all, so any prception of height comes from the listening environment and the way in which local reflections reach your ears. I recline when listening to music, and that usually pushes the soundstage upwards, I presume, because of reflections off the back of my chair and/or the floor as by reclining, my ears are closer to the floor than when sitting up straight. An absorbant floor and reflective ceiling, this being the normal arrangement, will also have the effect of raising the apparant height of the stereo image.

Sitting further away from the loudspeakers will make the first reflection point from the ceiling more likely to coincide with the listening seat, whereas listening closer, removes more of the room effects.

S

 

bmtell

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How are you speakers positioned ? I'm yet to hear a "3d" sound emanate from speakers that are close to the rear wall... If you can live without bass reinforcement pulling them out 3ft or so really helps matters.
That is just the mind playing tricks.

 

SergeAuckland

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That is just the mind playing tricks.
Essentially, it is, but then so is stereo anyway, as the brain generates the phantom images between loudspeakers. The vertical position of the phantom image is affected by local refelctions, whilst any impression of depth may be encoded in the recording, if done appropriately.

It's all a glorious con.

S

 

rockmeister

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glorious or not, I barely think about this stuff now. Compression, boom, lack of sparkle all get to me but 3D?

It's mere artefact.

Art Y fact?

Damn. I need it then after all.

 

Clubsport911

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I can concurr that speakers out in the room are (to my ears anyway) better at generating the front to back depth illusion. That said, not all loudspeakers are the same in this regard.

 

bmtell

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I can concurr that speakers out in the room are (to my ears anyway) better at generating the front to back depth illusion. That said, not all loudspeakers are the same in this regard.
I like this post. If you close your eyes for a while does the depth increase?

 

sunbeamgls

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If you have a tv between your speakers, move it out to see what happens. Or cover it with a thick blanket (making sure its unplugged as even standby produces heat).

Similarly if you have a coffee table between you and the speakers, see what happens when you take it out of the room.

 

gintonic

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If you have a tv between your speakers, move it out to see what happens. Or cover it with a thick blanket (making sure its unplugged as even standby produces heat).Similarly if you have a coffee table between you and the speakers, see what happens when you take it out of the room.
Well i've got no chance then, got the TV, 4 coffee tables and a cat basket

 

KND

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Well i've got no chance then, got the TV, 4 coffee tables and a cat basket
Cats in baskets act as a mild bass trap.

However, tip cat out of basket and he/she can be used to absorbed early reflections.



 

gintonic

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What about the cat that walks across your TT, to go and sit on the nice warm transformers of your valve amp?