What adds the 3rd dimension?

Jaffa

Wammer
Wammer
Nov 19, 2013
1,291
6
73
East Nothants
AKA
Lee
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
I'm sitting within 4 metres of my speakers, would more distance help or does this gave nothing to do with it.. ?

 

SergeAuckland

Certified Measurist
Wammer
May 6, 2008
18,607
1,915
173
Bury St Edmunds, UK
AKA
Serge
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
If you mean depth, that's encoded into the recording. It relies on the natural drop-off of high frequencies with distance, so that sources further away from the microphone have less HF than surces close to the microphone. With multi-track, closely miked recordings there's hardly any depth recorded unless it's done in the mix by eq'ing as well as panning individual sources, something hardly ever done.

It does require the reproducer to have a flat frequency response, especially at HF, so that any distance clues are reproduced as intended. Sadly, lots of loudspeakers have an uneven response at HF, which can destroy any distance clues, which are fairly subtle at best.

S

 

awkwardbydesign

Perfect, apparently.
Wammer
Mar 5, 2012
10,399
2,293
173
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
Depth is only the 2nd dimension. I would imagine he means height. Can Jaffa confirm that is what he means?

FWIW, I think that is hard to hear, on some ECM recordings I can hear height, but only if everything is perfect. So not at the moment, then.

 

istari knight

Wammer
Wammer
Aug 28, 2005
1,805
10
83
South downs
AKA
James
How are you speakers positioned ? I'm yet to hear a "3d" sound emanate from speakers that are close to the rear wall... If you can live without bass reinforcement pulling them out 3ft or so really helps matters.

 

awkwardbydesign

Perfect, apparently.
Wammer
Mar 5, 2012
10,399
2,293
173
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
How are you speakers positioned ? I'm yet to hear a "3d" sound emanate from speakers that are close to the rear wall... If you can live without bass reinforcement pulling them out 3ft or so really helps matters.
That probably makes sense. I think that any clouding of the sound, whether it is your room acoustics, speaker cabinet resonance, etc, would probably mask the subtle detail that is height information. As I said before, on some (particularly ECM) recordings the ceiling height of the studio is apparent. But if your room acoustics interfere then it all gets muddled. Just my theory why it only works sometimes.

Oh, and valves are essential. :run:

 

nick dartmoor

Super Wammer Plus
Wammer
Sep 19, 2009
1,630
68
93
Devon, UK
Four nice big, tall speakers, set up in a Hafler Network, will definitely address this. Fills the space, absolutely, in a very acoustically pleasing manner.

 

SergeAuckland

Certified Measurist
Wammer
May 6, 2008
18,607
1,915
173
Bury St Edmunds, UK
AKA
Serge
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
Height in stereo recordings isn't encoded at all, so any prception of height comes from the listening environment and the way in which local reflections reach your ears. I recline when listening to music, and that usually pushes the soundstage upwards, I presume, because of reflections off the back of my chair and/or the floor as by reclining, my ears are closer to the floor than when sitting up straight. An absorbant floor and reflective ceiling, this being the normal arrangement, will also have the effect of raising the apparant height of the stereo image.

Sitting further away from the loudspeakers will make the first reflection point from the ceiling more likely to coincide with the listening seat, whereas listening closer, removes more of the room effects.

S

 

bmtell

Wammer
Wammer
May 9, 2010
9,741
222
93
Northampton
AKA
Mark
How are you speakers positioned ? I'm yet to hear a "3d" sound emanate from speakers that are close to the rear wall... If you can live without bass reinforcement pulling them out 3ft or so really helps matters.
That is just the mind playing tricks.

 

SergeAuckland

Certified Measurist
Wammer
May 6, 2008
18,607
1,915
173
Bury St Edmunds, UK
AKA
Serge
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
That is just the mind playing tricks.
Essentially, it is, but then so is stereo anyway, as the brain generates the phantom images between loudspeakers. The vertical position of the phantom image is affected by local refelctions, whilst any impression of depth may be encoded in the recording, if done appropriately.

It's all a glorious con.

S

 

rockmeister

Wammer
Wammer
Jul 24, 2005
18,004
745
173
Scotland
AKA
John
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
glorious or not, I barely think about this stuff now. Compression, boom, lack of sparkle all get to me but 3D?

It's mere artefact.

Art Y fact?

Damn. I need it then after all.

 

Clubsport911

Wammer
Wammer
Jan 19, 2013
1,814
241
108
Cheltenham
AKA
Steve
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
I can concurr that speakers out in the room are (to my ears anyway) better at generating the front to back depth illusion. That said, not all loudspeakers are the same in this regard.

 

bmtell

Wammer
Wammer
May 9, 2010
9,741
222
93
Northampton
AKA
Mark
I can concurr that speakers out in the room are (to my ears anyway) better at generating the front to back depth illusion. That said, not all loudspeakers are the same in this regard.
I like this post. If you close your eyes for a while does the depth increase?

 

sunbeamgls

Wammer
Wammer
Mar 19, 2011
5,088
2,334
193
North Wales
HiFi Trade?
  1. Yes
If you have a tv between your speakers, move it out to see what happens. Or cover it with a thick blanket (making sure its unplugged as even standby produces heat).

Similarly if you have a coffee table between you and the speakers, see what happens when you take it out of the room.

 

gintonic

Noise, distortion & faff
Wammer Plus
Apr 25, 2012
6,815
1,704
193
no where
AKA
simon
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
If you have a tv between your speakers, move it out to see what happens. Or cover it with a thick blanket (making sure its unplugged as even standby produces heat).Similarly if you have a coffee table between you and the speakers, see what happens when you take it out of the room.
Well i've got no chance then, got the TV, 4 coffee tables and a cat basket

 

KND

Wammer
Wammer
Nov 5, 2013
362
2
0
P'bo UK
AKA
Karl
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
Well i've got no chance then, got the TV, 4 coffee tables and a cat basket
Cats in baskets act as a mild bass trap.

However, tip cat out of basket and he/she can be used to absorbed early reflections.



 

gintonic

Noise, distortion & faff
Wammer Plus
Apr 25, 2012
6,815
1,704
193
no where
AKA
simon
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
What about the cat that walks across your TT, to go and sit on the nice warm transformers of your valve amp?

 

Forum statistics

Threads
113,444
Messages
2,451,263
Members
70,783
Latest member
reg66

Latest Articles