WTD: quality Ethernet cable

Gwantommo

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Just picked up a Melco server for my Auralic G1 streamer and need a decent ethernet to connect them. Ideally 0.75m if anyone has anything spare they'd like to sell?

 

garn63

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Just picked up a Melco server for my Auralic G1 streamer and need a decent ethernet to connect them. Ideally 0.75m if anyone has anything spare they'd like to sell?
Before you buy something ....try some unshielded first for a couple of quid. You might like it ? 

 
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Gwantommo

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Before you buy something ....try some unshielded first for a couple of quid. You might like it ? 
I've looked at amazon and there's a heap of generic Cat8 ones on there, just thought I'd see if there was anything better out there before grabbing one

 

Gary

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I've actually been wondering if the ethernet cable would have any impact on sound quality when feeding a streamer. I have a Hegel amp and using that to stream from a MacBook with Airplay, but it strikes me that it's the router I'm actually streaming to, which then feeds a signal to the amp via the ethernet cable. Is that right or have I got that back to front, anyone know? 

 

marywhitehouse

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I've actually been wondering if the ethernet cable would have any impact on sound quality when feeding a streamer. I have a Hegel amp and using that to stream from a MacBook with Airplay, but it strikes me that it's the router I'm actually streaming to, which then feeds a signal to the amp via the ethernet cable. Is that right or have I got that back to front, anyone know? 
Yup that’s right and no it won’t as long as it’s a basically well physically constructed cable. Anything else is just making it look pretty/wallet emptying. Not sure the max transmission rate of Airplay. 

 
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kernow

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Yup that’s right and no it won’t as long as it’s a basically well physically constructed cable. Anything else is just making it look pretty/wallet emptying. Not sure the max transmission rate of Airplay. 
I doubt it's 10gbit which modern cables do, tbh

 

jamster

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I've actually been wondering if the ethernet cable would have any impact on sound quality when feeding a streamer. I have a Hegel amp and using that to stream from a MacBook with Airplay, but it strikes me that it's the router I'm actually streaming to, which then feeds a signal to the amp via the ethernet cable. Is that right or have I got that back to front, anyone know? 
Sort of, but saying you are "streaming" to the router is like saying you are posting a parcel to the Royal Mail Sorting Office, for them to post it to the recipient.  In practice, no-one describes it like that.  There's a lot of complexity in how network data is transmitted, it doesn't work like analogue.  The data to be transmitted is broken up into packets, which are in effect like little parcels, that are then sent (posted? :)) to the recipient. The router (actually a switch) is the sorting office.  It is agnostic to the type of data being sorted and forwarded, it won't typically 'unwrap the parcel' to find out, it just makes sure each parcel (packet) is passed to the right delivery man (port, cable).  "Streaming" is about what is in the parcel itself and how it will be understood by the recipient, i.e. refers to the streaming audio protocols that format the data on the sending and receiving devices, before and after the parcels have been wrapped up. 

Re. Ethernet cables, my understanding is:

- operating correctly there should be no difference in sound quality.  I use the type of el-cheapo cables of the type that that they use in data centers.  If they're good enough for Amazon etc... Feel free to spend a few quid for a really nicely constructed one just for the feeling of owning something nice.   Unless you have an unlimited budget, any more than pocket change is a poor use of your money to optimise your hifi.

- choosing the right type of cable can be a bit confusing.  Fortunately audio is low bandwidth so anything from Cat 5 upwards is OK.  Cat 6 is about the sweet spot on price but the price different is often small to move up to Cat 6e, 7 or 8, so get what you fancy. 

- if the cable runs close to mains electrical cables etc. then there's a small risk that it might pick up EMI, and transmit that EMI into your equipment.  Most well-constructed streamers will filter for inbound EMI.  You can use a *shielded* ethernet cable just in case, although these are not necessarily better... if you pick up a ground loop hum then try an unshielded cable. See this comment from @rabski .  In practice I've never noticed any difference on my home network. 



-

 
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Gary

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Sort of, but saying you are "streaming" to the router is like saying you are posting a parcel to the Royal Mail Sorting Office, for them to post it to the recipient.  In practice, no-one describes it like that.  There's a lot of complexity in how network data is transmitted, it doesn't work like analogue.  The data to be transmitted is broken up into packets, which are in effect like little parcels, that are then sent (posted? :)) to the recipient. The router (actually a switch) is the sorting office.  It is agnostic to the type of data being sorted and forwarded, it won't typically 'unwrap the parcel' to find out, it just makes sure each parcel (packet) is passed to the right delivery man (port, cable).  "Streaming" is about what is in the parcel itself, i.e. refers to the streaming audio protocols that operate on the sending and receiving devices, before and after the parcels have been wrapped up. 

Re. Ethernet cables, my understanding is:

- operating correctly there should be no difference in sound quality.  I use the type of el-cheapo cables of the type that that they use in data centers.  If they're good enough for Amazon etc... Feel free to spend a few quid for a really nicely constructed one just for the feeling of owning something nice.   Unless you have an unlimited budget, any more than pocket change is a poor use of your money to optimise your hifi.

- choosing the right type of cable can be a bit confusing.  Fortunately audio is low bandwidth so anything from Cat 5 upwards is OK.  Cat 6 is about the sweet spot on price but the price different is often small to move up to Cat 6e, 7 or 8, so get what you fancy. 

- if the cable runs close to mains electrical cables etc. then there's a small risk that it might pick up EMI, and transmit that EMI into your equipment.  Most well-constructed streamers will filter for inbound EMI.  You can use a *shielded* ethernet cable just in case, although these are not necessarily better... if you pick up a ground loop hum then try an unshielded cable. See this comment from @rabski .  In practice I've never noticed any difference on my home network. 



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Thank you, that's very helpful. I have an admittedly poor understanding on the technicalities of such things, which is probably why I bought an Audioquest one hahaha... although it is shielded and does run by a power cable so maybe all is good anyway. 

I confess to being confused by all the differing opinions on these matters, it's the same with USB cables and audio. I had researched it and was adamant that it made no difference, so I used an Amazon basics USB cable for nearly a year. Then one day I was feeling a bit flush and adventurous, so I bought an Audioquest Carbon USB cable thinking it would make no difference, but as I could return it, then it was worth trying anyway. Well, the difference it made nearly blew my socks off. I don't understand it, but I know what I hear, and it really did make for a sizeable sonic improvement.

I often wonder if it's something that is subjective, but valid, in the same way that the same dish will taste differently to different people. Technically there's no reason why the same ingredients should register in different ways, but we all know they do, so perhaps it's the same with audio. I see no reason why not, and it's certainly an interesting topic. 

 
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Lawrence001

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Sort of, but saying you are "streaming" to the router is like saying you are posting a parcel to the Royal Mail Sorting Office, for them to post it to the recipient.  In practice, no-one describes it like that.  There's a lot of complexity in how network data is transmitted, it doesn't work like analogue.  The data to be transmitted is broken up into packets, which are in effect like little parcels, that are then sent (posted?
smile.png
) to the recipient. The router (actually a switch) is the sorting office.  It is agnostic to the type of data being sorted and forwarded, it won't typically 'unwrap the parcel' to find out, it just makes sure each parcel (packet) is passed to the right delivery man (port, cable).  "Streaming" is about what is in the parcel itself and how it will be understood by the recipient, i.e. refers to the streaming audio protocols that format the data on the sending and receiving devices, before and after the parcels have been wrapped up. 
Re. Ethernet cables, my understanding is:
- operating correctly there should be no difference in sound quality.  I use the type of el-cheapo cables of the type that that they use in data centers.  If they're good enough for Amazon etc... Feel free to spend a few quid for a really nicely constructed one just for the feeling of owning something nice.   Unless you have an unlimited budget, any more than pocket change is a poor use of your money to optimise your hifi.
- choosing the right type of cable can be a bit confusing.  Fortunately audio is low bandwidth so anything from Cat 5 upwards is OK.  Cat 6 is about the sweet spot on price but the price different is often small to move up to Cat 6e, 7 or 8, so get what you fancy. 
- if the cable runs close to mains electrical cables etc. then there's a small risk that it might pick up EMI, and transmit that EMI into your equipment.  Most well-constructed streamers will filter for inbound EMI.  You can use a *shielded* ethernet cable just in case, although these are not necessarily better... if you pick up a ground loop hum then try an unshielded cable. See this comment from @rabski .  In practice I've never noticed any difference on my home network. 
-
Would the argument about ethernet cables making no difference to the sound also apply to usb and coax cables? As I've noticed very big differences when upgrading those.

Is there's a technical difference between the way the data is transmitted to the router and the router to the streamer, compared to from the streamer to the DAC, that means the SQ is immune to cable differences, then I would accept it's possible the Ethernet cable makes no difference (but would still like to test myself).
 

rabski

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if the cable runs close to mains electrical cables etc. then there's a small risk that it might pick up EMI, and transmit that EMI into your equipment.  Most well-constructed streamers will filter for inbound EMI.  You can use a *shielded* ethernet cable just in case, although these are not necessarily better... if you pick up a ground loop hum then try an unshielded cable. See this comment from @rabski .  In practice I've never noticed any difference on my home network.
As per my comment, from how I understand it, ethernet has galvanic isolation at both ends. It's a differential signal, so no interfernece will get 'in' without being inherently rejected. If you screen it, you then add a connection between the send and receive grounding that shouldn't be there. In this case, screening will not prevent interference and could actually cause it.

 

jamster

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Would the argument about ethernet cables making no difference to the sound also apply to usb and coax cables? As I've noticed very big differences when upgrading those.
 
As I understand:  the precise technologies are slightly different in each case, but the principles are very similar. Unless you have (I) a defective, excessively long, or VERY cheap cable; or (II) a very electrically noisy operating environment, then in a domestic setting you are unlikely to get sufficient signal degradation to be noticeable. 

On USB and coax some DACs are more sensitive than others (related to how well they reject jitter) but for digital signal there really should be no difference between a decent quality Amazon Basics cable and an equivalent AudioQuest cable [of a sensible length, connected to well-functioning components, kept away from mains cables etc.]

"But I can hear a difference" ... not denying that.  As Wikipedia puts it: "Hearing is not a purely mechanical phenomenon of wave propagation, but is also a sensory and perceptual event".  Is this a problem? If buying and using an expensive cable makes you hear a better sound... why worry :)

 

Gary

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As I understand:  the precise technologies are slightly different in each case, but the principles are very similar. Unless you have (I) a defective, excessively long, or VERY cheap cable; or (II) a very electrically noisy operating environment, then in a domestic setting you are unlikely to get sufficient signal degradation to be noticeable. 

On USB and coax some DACs are more sensitive than others (related to how well they reject jitter) but for digital signal there really should be no difference between a decent quality Amazon Basics cable and an equivalent AudioQuest cable [of a sensible length, connected to well-functioning components, kept away from mains cables etc.]

"But I can hear a difference" ... not denying that.  As Wikipedia puts it: "Hearing is not a purely mechanical phenomenon of wave propagation, but is also a sensory and perceptual event".  Is this a problem? If buying and using an expensive cable makes you hear a better sound... why worry :)
That's pretty much where I've settled. It strikes me as obvious that different people will perceive the same sound differently, for those exact reasons. The way I see it, we are essentially reality measuring devices, and we are all calibrated slightly differently. 

What interests me most though, is how personally people take it, I never see the same defensive stances taken in terms of taste and smell, yet tell someone you can hear the difference between cables and they might bite your head off. 

 

Lawrence001

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"But I can hear a difference" ... not denying that.  As Wikipedia puts it: "Hearing is not a purely mechanical phenomenon of wave propagation, but is also a sensory and perceptual event".  Is this a problem? If buying and using an expensive cable makes you hear a better sound... why worry [emoji4]
The issue is I believe that I hear differences in the sound waves coming from my speakers between a cheap coax cable and my Mark Grant, ditto a cheap USB and my Audioquest (same as the OP said). So I'm looking to discuss the technical difference between data transmission between the router and the streamer, and the streamer and the dac and whether the former process is as susceptible to being degraded by low quality cables as the latter.

 

jamster

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The issue is I believe that I hear differences in the sound waves coming from my speakers between a cheap coax cable and my Mark Grant, ditto a cheap USB and my Audioquest (same as the OP said). So I'm looking to discuss the technical difference between data transmission between the router and the streamer, and the streamer and the dac and whether the former process is as susceptible to being degraded by low quality cables as the latter.
 
Yep - and my point is that there's limited or no technical difference if everything else is working properly [which admittedly gets harder to verify the more esoteric one's components become]. 

It is proven science that people can "hear a difference" based on other factors than technical ones.

 

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