Yes I am this shallow - but I need to know this ......

hughandella

Wammer
Wammer
Apr 12, 2013
900
4
0
coggeshall essex
AKA
chris
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
This will not be a brief missive --- I warn you but make no apology in advance ...( skip to bottom is my advice - as it so often is !).. I like opinions as I am the worst kind of wammer ..... I am well intentioned ........and try to offer sincere advice, but with a little information I become dangerous - and was found out fairly comprehensively recently ( see post on iPhones !) --- but as Father Jack cuddled those puppies I felt we all emerged better people ... SO --- accepting I will annoy many on here, for me and only for me --- the following hold true:

I can believe 100% that side by side in a controlled environment system A will sound - even to my wax filled, and in the past, scotch numbed ears 'better' than system B.

However I rarely get the chance to hear --- and in my case truthfully, the inclination to prepare --- my system in an optimal environment ( this is not to belittle those who do --- quite the contrary I understand and recognise that desire, but right now its not possible )

So accept my views and comments in that context --- with the added and very material caveat that I used to be able to justify a system costing £7k used value - not unusual but still a material amount --- whereas now, for rather boring reasons, I am looking at £1,000 but continue looking for quality.

For me and me alone this has lead to me owning the following:

Zen ( Innuous server ) - bought new for £650 4 years ago - now worth £250 ?

Miniwatt n4 DAC - bought for £100 ( excellent )

Mistral 307 amp ( latest acquisition ) - bought for £110 ( so far - very impressed )

Upgraded tubes - £20

Electricbeach M1Nx standmounts with plinths - £295 ( amazing )

Stands £40

REL Q200 sub £120

1 * Temple interconnects £20

1 * Lindy USB £15

2 * 2m cat 5 cable £15ish

2 * power cables £30

Thats about a thousand quid and it honestly sounds very good to my ears --- NOT the very best

but in the context I have owned some of the following ( far from exhaustive )

AN Meishu

Metrum Octave Dac

Jolida Glass DAC

JK DAC24

Densen pre and power ( v nice )

MF 200 monoblocks

Big Chinese Pre

Telerium Q Green speaker cable

Blue Heaven USB

AN p2SE power amp ( I rated that as highly as the meishu )

Living Voice IBX R2

Focal ( in wall something )

AN Zero pre and power

Linn Akurate speakers

Schiit pre amp

etc etc

Anyway I know that one of this is earth moving equipment on a forum like this but to me it has been instructive that - by force of circumstance - I have had to 'downgrade' to my current set up and yet - possibly through wishful thinking ( hearing ) - I genuinely feel this set up is as good as any that I have owned.

I have become an agnostic on speaker cables, interconnects, USB, power cables and similar ---- I'm not saying I'm right - but just for me - money is much better spent elsewhere ---- to a lesser extent but still noticeable I doubt the ability of DACs to make much of a difference above the miniwatt level...

Accepting I am not a vinyl man ( budget forbids as i see it so much more open to genuine mechanical * differences )

* wrong term no doubt

So

I think a good server capable of stable FLAC delivery -- thus requiring a decent PSU

a £100 used DAC

My experience with Schiit passive pre costing £55 delivered was excellent

So i will risk wrath and say amps matter but a very good result can be had for little money --- this Chinese tube Mistral is great

All cables -- what is needed is well built with proper connectors

THIS IS MY QUESTION

I am drawn to aesthetics and genuinely feel that somethng that looks good --- be it food, a car, furniture, a partner, a pair of speakers --- has a material impact on my enjoyment - it cannot be everything but to ignore it is foolish.

HiFi HAS to look good for me to covet it --- I will sacrifice X% of sound quality for aesthetics -- I am that shallow per the Op

Therefore

PLEASE TELL ME WHAT IS THE CHEAPEST WAY OF ME BUYING ( WHEN MY FINANCES IMPROVE ) A PAIR of HORN SPEAKERs IN THE AVANTGARDE UNO tradition... they re like sculpture to me and i am lucky that i have a nice room that will allow them to stand in their own space ..and to br admired as a piece of furniture/art as much as a music source.

i dont know if there are other manufacturers that offer a similar design ... if you assume i know nothing, it is not a bad place to start ....

btw...... name 3 'perfect' design families .... :

for me

recent aston martins and nearly all porsche 911's

navy armani suit

cary grant, david niven, bill nighy, & michael caine 's wardrobes with george clooney under advice !

rachel riley's maths

white cotton and linen bed sheets

a perfect espresso

tuna sashimi

vase of irises

b&b italia sofa

one of my paintings

a perfect cymbal, a double bass and a drum on this feckin hifi

... that time i interfered with myself and just about kept my eyesight ...

i'm digressing .... but is £2k possible/realistic for a pair of classic (external) horn speakers ? ( im just valuing a lung, kidney and half my liver on line .... my soul went years ago )

i'm even speaking to my good friend Steve at electricbeach to see if he'll build a kit for me .....

 

Tel

Wammer
Wammer
Aug 13, 2006
30,258
659
173
Hove Actually
AKA
Kevin
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
This will not be a brief missive --- I warn you but make no apology in advance ...( skip to bottom is my advice - as it so often is !).. I like opinions as I am the worst kind of wammer ..... I am well intentioned ........and try to offer sincere advice' date=' but with a little information I become dangerous - and was found out fairly comprehensively recently ( see post on iPhones !) --- but as Father Jack cuddled those puppies I felt we all emerged better people ... SO --- accepting I will annoy many on here, for me and only for me --- the following hold true:I can believe 100% that side by side in a controlled environment system A will sound - even to my wax filled, and in the past, scotch numbed ears 'better' than system B.

However I rarely get the chance to hear --- and in my case truthfully, the inclination to prepare --- my system in an optimal environment ( this is not to belittle those who do --- quite the contrary I understand and recognise that desire, but right now its not possible )

So accept my views and comments in that context --- with the added and very material caveat that I used to be able to justify a system costing £7k used value - not unusual but still a material amount --- whereas now, for rather boring reasons, I am looking at £1,000 but continue looking for quality.

For me and me alone this has lead to me owning the following:

Zen ( Innuous server ) - bought new for £650 4 years ago - now worth £250 ?

Miniwatt n4 DAC - bought for £100 ( excellent )

Mistral 307 amp ( latest acquisition ) - bought for £110 ( so far - very impressed )

Upgraded tubes - £20

Electricbeach M1Nx standmounts with plinths - £295 ( amazing )

Stands £40

REL Q200 sub £120

1 * Temple interconnects £20

1 * Lindy USB £15

2 * 2m cat 5 cable £15ish

2 * power cables £30

Thats about a thousand quid and it honestly sounds very good to my ears --- NOT the very best

but in the context I have owned some of the following ( far from exhaustive )

AN Meishu

Metrum Octave Dac

Jolida Glass DAC

JK DAC24

Densen pre and power ( v nice )

MF 200 monoblocks

Big Chinese Pre

Telerium Q Green speaker cable

Blue Heaven USB

AN p2SE power amp ( I rated that as highly as the meishu )

Living Voice IBX R2

Focal ( in wall something )

AN Zero pre and power

Linn Akurate speakers

Schiit pre amp

etc etc

Anyway I know that one of this is earth moving equipment on a forum like this but to me it has been instructive that - by force of circumstance - I have had to 'downgrade' to my current set up and yet - possibly through wishful thinking ( hearing ) - I genuinely feel this set up is as good as any that I have owned.

I have become an agnostic on speaker cables, interconnects, USB, power cables and similar ---- I'm not saying I'm right - but just for me - money is much better spent elsewhere ---- to a lesser extent but still noticeable I doubt the ability of DACs to make much of a difference above the miniwatt level...

Accepting I am not a vinyl man ( budget forbids as i see it so much more open to genuine mechanical * differences )

* wrong term no doubt

So

I think a good server capable of stable FLAC delivery -- thus requiring a decent PSU

a £100 used DAC

My experience with Schiit passive pre costing £55 delivered was excellent

So i will risk wrath and say amps matter but a very good result can be had for little money --- this Chinese tube Mistral is great

All cables -- what is needed is well built with proper connectors

THIS IS MY QUESTION

I am drawn to aesthetics and genuinely feel that somethng that looks good --- be it food, a car, furniture, a partner, a pair of speakers --- has a material impact on my enjoyment - it cannot be everything but to ignore it is foolish.

HiFi HAS to look good for me to covet it --- I will sacrifice X% of sound quality for aesthetics -- I am that shallow per the Op

Therefore

PLEASE TELL ME WHAT IS THE CHEAPEST WAY OF ME BUYING ( WHEN MY FINANCES IMPROVE ) A PAIR of HORN SPEAKERs IN THE AVANTGARDE UNO tradition... they re like sculpture to me and i am lucky that i have a nice room that will allow them to stand in their own space ..and to br admired as a piece of furniture/art as much as a music source.

i dont know if there are other manufacturers that offer a similar design ... if you assume i know nothing, it is not a bad place to start ....

btw...... name 3 'perfect' design families .... :

for me

recent aston martins and nearly all porsche 911's

navy armani suit

cary grant, david niven, bill nighy, & michael caine 's wardrobes with george clooney under advice !

rachel riley's maths

white cotton and linen bed sheets

a perfect espresso

tuna sashimi

vase of irises

b&b italia sofa

one of my paintings

a perfect cymbal, a double bass and a drum on this feckin hifi

... that time i interfered with myself and just about kept my eyesight ...

i'm digressing .... but is £2k possible/realistic for a pair of classic (external) horn speakers ? ( im just valuing a lung, kidney and half my liver on line .... my soul went years ago )

i'm even speaking to my good friend Steve at electricbeach to see if he'll build a kit for me .....[/quote']

tl;dr
 

RDD

Wammer
Wammer
Jan 17, 2009
409
4
48
Lancashire
Glad I'm not the only one thinking this (had to Google tl;dr).
Exactly the same here!

I did manage to read through it though (well I speed read it), just my 2p but to be honest speakers of that type and value need equally high end amplification to sound their best, so buying high end speakers alone would just be the start of the journey.

 

joleyami

Warmer
Wammer
Jan 15, 2014
2,031
49
93
Cornwall
AKA
Mike
Good quality drive units will take up a big chunk of your budget for Horns.

You seem to have tried lots of different amplification, but very limited Speaker choices.

It may be worth trying other speakers first, like Proac, Spendor, LV, the list goes on.

If you are really fixated with efficiency, then Horns are as good as you are likely to get, but they may sound awful if you build your own.

I would go 3 Way Active with DSP, at least it will give you flexibility.

CoCo will be your best advisor. IMO

 

whatsnext

Wammer
Wammer
Sep 15, 2009
534
9
0
Birmingham
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
If one wants help perhaps best to reach the widest audience by ones style of communication.

I lost the will to be interested.

Best of luck with whatever your excessive missive sought.

How long did it take you to think and type that effort?

 

Valvebloke

Member
Wammer
Dec 3, 2009
4,432
274
128
Didcot, Oxon
AKA
Graeme
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
Good quality drive units will take up a big chunk of your budget for Horns.You seem to have tried lots of different amplification, but very limited Speaker choices.

It may be worth trying other speakers first, like Proac, Spendor, LV, the list goes on.

If you are really fixated with efficiency, then Horns are as good as you are likely to get, but they may sound awful if you build your own.

I would go 3 Way Active with DSP, at least it will give you flexibility.

CoCo will be your best advisor. IMO
He's not really fixated with efficiency. He's really fixated with the look of horns:

...THIS IS MY QUESTION

I am drawn to aesthetics and genuinely feel that somethng that looks good ... has a material impact on my enjoyment - it cannot be everything but to ignore it is foolish.

HiFi HAS to look good for me to covet it --- I will sacrifice X% of sound quality for aesthetics -- I am that shallow per the Op.

Therefore

PLEASE TELL ME WHAT IS THE CHEAPEST WAY OF ME BUYING ( WHEN MY FINANCES IMPROVE ) A PAIR of HORN SPEAKERs IN THE AVANTGARDE UNO tradition... they re like sculpture to me and i am lucky that i have a nice room that will allow them to stand in their own space ..and to br admired as a piece of furniture/art as much as a music source ...
The solution is to buy some decent sounding speakers and to hide them inside some fake horns knocked up out of a material which is acoustically transparent. I was lucky enough to spend a morning round at Frank's (f1eng) this week listening mostly to his Animas. It was a real pleasure, but not exactly cheap (for Frank of course, it was perfect for me !). Anyway, a framework-and-fabric mockup of the bass horn part of them would be big enough to hide some very nice but more affordable speaks inside, and with enough care and attention the smaller horns could be replicated in papier-mache and sprayed for the price of a couple of rattle cans (OK, no-one would be fooled from close up, but these aren't really for near-field listening are they ...).

VB

 

dangermouse

Hasta la vista
Wammer Plus
Jul 10, 2011
835
408
128
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
I lost the will to be interested.
...et alia.

I can't say that I had a similar problem. I do have a problem with long unpunctuated and unparagraphed posts but this was perfectly readable and interesting, if a tad rambling and whimsical.

My point being...

 

batteredhaggis

Wammer
Wammer
Apr 29, 2013
2,622
540
158
East Sussex
AKA
Jamie
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
btw...... name 3 'perfect' design families .... :for me

recent aston martins and nearly all porsche 911's

navy armani suit

cary grant, david niven, bill nighy, & michael caine 's wardrobes with george clooney under advice !

rachel riley's maths

white cotton and linen bed sheets

a perfect espresso

tuna sashimi

vase of irises

b&b italia sofa

one of my paintings

a perfect cymbal, a double bass and a drum on this feckin hifi

... that time i interfered with myself and just about kept my eyesight ...

i'm digressing .... but is £2k possible/realistic for a pair of classic (external) horn speakers ? ( im just valuing a lung, kidney and half my liver on line .... my soul went years ago )

i'm even speaking to my good friend Steve at electricbeach to see if he'll build a kit for me .....
If onanism can even be defined as a perfect design family.... hope your paintings aren't 'artist at work' type self portraits :p

And if you want to help Rachel Riley multiply you'll be needing more than £1000 and the horns.

 

mrwippy

Well-Known Wammer
Wammer
Nov 6, 2006
2,806
40
93
Plymouth, UK
AKA
Paul
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
couldn't get passed the first paragraph of '.......'s so I'll just skip to another thread.

Paul

 

hughandella

Wammer
Wammer
Apr 12, 2013
900
4
0
coggeshall essex
AKA
chris
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
'tl;dr' indeed ….. I had to look it up too ……… some wine had been taken…………

I think the title was a bit of a giveaway tbh ...what can I say ? tough crowd ha ha

Hands up I deserved it all -- and any man with humility would recognise that and walk away, chastened --- I'm not there yet though and so to Tel I say, any man who writes its ' Hove Actually' as a location is on dodgy ground ( though we have chatted before very amicably !) and when I need advice from a 'Networking Geek on the Isle of Mull' (?) I shall know I am struggling .. all I can say to FatMarley is I can't trust a man with such a round number of posts - I so want to be 1801 ……. seriously hands up -- but if I can't be a knob on hear where can I be ?

and I awake with a thickish head still wanting horns ( quite frankly of any variety ) …. thanks Matron

thanks for ideas from some posters though

 

hughandella

Wammer
Wammer
Apr 12, 2013
900
4
0
coggeshall essex
AKA
chris
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
If one wants help perhaps best to reach the widest audience by ones style of communication.I lost the will to be interested.

Best of luck with whatever your excessive missive sought.

How long did it take you to think and type that effort?
I can't tell you how long it took tbh….. I woke up in bed with a headache, a kebab, a hooker and some skid marks ---- just trying to work out if i hope they are mine or not :)

 

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
113,444
Messages
2,451,263
Members
70,783
Latest member
reg66

Latest Articles

Wammers Online