graham67

Recommendations for HDMI cables

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40 minutes ago, SergeAuckland said:

But I have,  l've measured AND I've listened, with sufficient rigour to be satisfied that a cable of normal length and construction can't and doesn't make a difference to passing an audio signal. Yes, it's possible to build in filters into interconnects, or to use high capacitance loudspeaker cables with amplifiers of marginal stability and change the sound, but mains cables and digital cables that meet the relevant technical standards MUST be the same. Similarly with loudspeaker cables that have adequate RCL characteristics and a stable amplifier. Ohms Law. Never been shown to be wrong.

I can turn this round the other way. Why do Cable Believers persist in giving bogus advice that can only result in a waste of money? 

S

Serge...I heard your system at the 2012 scalford show....especially your huge B&W's 800 series I seem to recall...and I've  heard this model sing on many occasions but your sound was absolutely dreadful....my ears told me that...I didn't have to look behind your kit..to see that you were using cheap cables...mind you ..your disco power amps may have had something to do with it too....I don't give anyone bogus advice...I've even sent cables country wide...and said to the prospective buyers...try it out...if it works for you...buy it...if it doesn't send it back,,,,I let people make up their own minds...as are quite a few cable sellers these days...it's good for business and good for prospective buyers....dry up and let the people choose themselves....and if people want to waste money...as you put it...what has that got to do with you?..let it go....let the believers have their fun...instead of ramming home this point about ohms law has never changed blah blah blah.....

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23 minutes ago, mad-moon said:

Serge...I heard your system at the 2012 scalford show....especially your huge B&W's 800 series I seem to recall...and I've  heard this model sing on many occasions but your sound was absolutely dreadful....my ears told me that...I didn't have to look behind your kit..to see that you were using cheap cables...mind you ..your disco power amps may have had something to do with it too....I don't give anyone bogus advice...I've even sent cables country wide...and said to the prospective buyers...try it out...if it works for you...buy it...if it doesn't send it back,,,,I let people make up their own minds...as are quite a few cable sellers these days...it's good for business and good for prospective buyers....dry up and let the people choose themselves....and if people want to waste money...as you put it...what has that got to do with you?..let it go....let the believers have their fun...instead of ramming home this point about ohms law has never changed blah blah blah.....

Quality, but it 'measured perfectly' so must sound great *cuckoo*:roll:, so your ears are wrong MadMoon, forgot those lovely piece of engineering designed by nature that science cant even be able to fully understand. The lab made machine is better.

Edited by lostintranslation

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But this thread is about HDMI cables which some people tell us 1000s upon 1000s of people hear differences in sound and quality of images with. I have yet to hear a difference in sound from any intact digital signal cable. I know some folks do hear a difference. If my next door neighbour did I would be interested. As my system did not sound different changing USB, Coax or optical there seems little point really. 

Hated that Tellurium Q Black speaker cable though, glad to sell it. The Cardas Headphone cable was great

Edited by whatsnext

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9 minutes ago, Cloth-Ears. said:

Most of the sound comes from the cabling.

Cabling, then room, then speakers, then the rest.

source media, ears, brain, transducers plus room, and source equipment............................

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23 minutes ago, mad-moon said:

Serge...I heard your system at the 2012 scalford show....especially your huge B&W's 800 series I seem to recall...and I've  heard this model sing on many occasions but your sound was absolutely dreadful....my ears told me that...I didn't have to look behind your kit..to see that you were using cheap cables...mind you ..your disco power amps may have had something to do with it too....I don't give anyone bogus advice...I've even sent cables country wide...and said to the prospective buyers...try it out...if it works for you...buy it...if it doesn't send it back,,,,I let people make up their own minds...as are quite a few cable sellers these days...it's good for business and good for prospective buyers....dry up and let the people choose themselves....and if people want to waste money...as you put it...what has that got to do with you?..let it go....let the believers have their fun...instead of ramming home this point about ohms law has never changed blah blah blah.....

Somehow this listening impression doesn't surprise me much.

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16 minutes ago, whatsnext said:

But this thread is about HDMI cables which some people tell us 1000s upon 1000s of people hear differences in sound and quality of images with. I have yet to hear a difference in sound from any intact digital signal cable. I know some folks do hear a difference. If my next door neighbour did I would be interested. As my system did not sound different changing USB, Coax or optical there seems little point really. 

Hated that Tellurium Q Black speaker cable though, glad to sell it. The Cardas Headphone cable was great

Tell Black is an acquired taste. Its really VERY good at that price point, but it is a certain sound, some love some hate. I loved it for ages, till I moved up the scale and found it was still somewhat 'over produced' on some tones.

1 minute ago, radamel said:

Somehow this listening impression doesn't surprise me much.

I wish I was there, I imagine it sounded like a Matsui Hifi.

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2 minutes ago, lostintranslation said:

Tell Black is an acquired taste. Its really VERY good at that price point, but it is a certain sound, some love some hate. I loved it for ages, till I moved up the scale and found it was still somewhat 'over produced' on some tones.

I love it. Best I've heard at their price point. 

Edited by radamel

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1 hour ago, George 47 said:

But this is not about the weird and wonderful but the well made cables where there audio differences are still heard. These heard differences can be seen with MRI scans so they are real to the people concerned.

Most of the 'believers' that offer advice all say listen before you buy, which allows the poster to hear and decide. Most people do not have money to waste and therefore the cable has a really tough job as it has to convince a semi-sceptic that there are differences to be heard. If there are none, or they are minimal, then the cables can be returned and no money is exchanged. But it keeps on happening even when real tight wads do the listening tests. No salesman whispering in your ear, tapping his foot, if you do not hear it return it.....just you on your own.

I have no problem with others saying, no there is no way cables can make a difference. Just listen and you will hear no difference as I did. The attacks we can do without.

Interesting about MRI scans. Links to the tests please. When comparing the cables did the listener know which cable was being used? Vital for the purposes of the test that they didn't.

It's good if fancy cable vendors allow a no questions asked return policy, but if you are of a mindset that makes you want to try them in the first place you are probably convinced before you listen. In which case you are likely to be convinced when you do listen. As far as I am concerned if someone perceives a difference, then it is real for them and if gives them pleasure then good for them. The problem comes when they start to enthuse others down their route, especially if the differences are very marginal or actually non existent except in the mind. Then it is good that people like Serge come along to politely put the opposite view.

That way, anyone new to the hobby (obsession ;-)) can at least hear both sides of the argument. That so many people (not shooting at you here!) who do use fancy cable are so rude to those who dare counter their assertions does to my mind indicate that their case may be weak. If they are right there is absolutely no need to call others pompous for simply explaining their point of view.

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Super Wammer

When subjective vs objective arises, this thread is relevant:

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55 minutes ago, mad-moon said:

Serge...I heard your system at the 2012 scalford show....especially your huge B&W's 800 series I seem to recall...and I've  heard this model sing on many occasions but your sound was absolutely dreadful....my ears told me that...I didn't have to look behind your kit..to see that you were using cheap cables...mind you ..your disco power amps may have had something to do with it too....I don't give anyone bogus advice...I've even sent cables country wide...and said to the prospective buyers...try it out...if it works for you...buy it...if it doesn't send it back,,,,I let people make up their own minds...as are quite a few cable sellers these days...it's good for business and good for prospective buyers....dry up and let the people choose themselves....and if people want to waste money...as you put it...what has that got to do with you?..let it go....let the believers have their fun...instead of ramming home this point about ohms law has never changed blah blah blah.....

How incredibly rude! Someone goes to all the trouble to lug their equipment half way across the country at their own expense for your pleasure and you then slag off the sound. Frankly, that is disgusting. When it comes to Scalford and all the effort people put into it, a decent person might want to praise where due but keep quiet about what they don't like.

Why is it that people who are keen on promoting the idea that cables make a difference so averse to anyone putting the opposite point of view. This is forum for debate after all; I like to read both sides but am getting a bit fed up with the juvenile rudeness and point scoring that's going on.

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6 minutes ago, Camverton said:

How incredibly rude! Someone goes to all the trouble to lug their equipment half way across the country at their own expense for your pleasure and you then slag off the sound. Frankly, that is disgusting. When it comes to Scalford and all the effort people put into it, a decent person might want to praise where due but keep quiet about what they don't like.

Why is it that people who are keen on promoting the idea that cables make a difference so averse to anyone putting the opposite point of view. This is forum for debate after all; I like to read both sides but am getting a bit fed up with the juvenile rudeness and point scoring that's going on.

Didn't see you criticising the rudeness of people calling others idiots...

Or don't you find that to be rude?

Edited by radamel

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Super Wammer
2 hours ago, radamel said:

Why not try and enjoy listening to music instead?

it seems that according to lostintranslation  I'm too old and set in my ways to be allowed to join the young hip folks

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I've just spent a good 30 minutes of my life reading this 'thread'. Take it from me as one who's first start at the Wam involved posing a cable question - I learned very quickly to shut TF up.

But to summarise what I've learned so far from this glorious discussion:

1.  Cables can be cheap or expensive or somewhere in between

2. Some think they hear a difference, and some know they don't

3.  er, that's it

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