Spider

New tubes in valve amp or phono stage

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Hi

I am considering some tube updates for my amp and or phono stage.

A couple of questions.

1. When putting in brand new tubes is there anything to consider? (As in when turning on for the first time, or a running in procedure, or the best way to handle them)

2. How long does it take for them to run in on average?

3. Any opinion on if new valves in the phono stage or amplifier would yield the best improvement in sound quality?

Thanks

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Your wasting your time with all that old fashioned valve stuff, silicon chips were invented for a reason you know ;). Send it all over here, and I'll dispose of it for you.

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You really must do a DIY thread with lots of pictures showing the valves in your Graham Slee phono, should be a hoot.

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It's the Remton phono stage I'm thinking about, not updated my info list   DOH!

39 minutes ago, freefallrob said:

Your wasting your time with all that old fashioned valve stuff, silicon chips were invented for a reason you know ;). Send it all over here, and I'll dispose of it for you.

Nice try, Anyway it warms the front room on a chilly night. :shock:

Edited by Spider

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8 minutes ago, Spider said:

It's the Remton phono stage I'm thinking about

Blooming eck' you've only just got the thing! Maybe ask Jack at BD Audio? He may have some suggestions possibly?  

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16 minutes ago, freefallrob said:

Blooming eck' you've only just got the thing! Maybe ask Jack at BD Audio? He may have some suggestions possibly?  

Just got to thinking if a valve upgrade would see an improvement. Have new toy, will play O.o

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I have to admit, I don't know much about 'tube rolling' I've only ever done that with my old WAD KEL84 (EL84's), they did change the sound, I ended up with toughened up Russian things which were very good, warm yet very clear....

Looks like it has JJ ECC83S fitted, a matched set of 3.

Might be worth giving Ampregen or Doug (biker boy) a shout, they both gave me advice in the past.

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1 hour ago, Spider said:

1. When putting in brand new tubes is there anything to consider? (As in when turning on for the first time, or a running in procedure, or the best way to handle them)

I used to use a small clean cloth (specs cleaning cloth) to handle them, and just be gentle when pushing and pulling them in and out :rude:.

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Super Wammer
53 minutes ago, Spider said:

Just got to thinking if a valve upgrade would see an improvement. Have new toy, will play O.o

When I got my SP9 I searched the internet to find out I could bout 6dj8 valves .. and you find a wealth of information about compatibility of different types .. just to give you an idea of the alternatives of this most used valve in preamp stages .. so I am sure if you search on each family of valves you are interested in you will find lots of useful information out there .. though I will say in my SP9 i was unable to tell the difference between Tesla and Seimens E88cc :) 

What does seem to be a common thread though is in searches Electro Harmonix tend to get lots of nice things said about them 

The following is about 6DJ8 as an example 

6DJ8 Description 6DJ8 was originally intended for RF cascode amplifier. The design targeted low noise, high conductance (gm), high mu and low internal resistance (rp).  

In recent years, audio manufacturers realized this combination makes it perfect for audio application. We now have a wide variety of HiFi tube equipments with 6DJ8 type tubes on the market today.

Here are different numbers you see on 6DJ8 type tubes.

  • ECC88 is European numbering for 6DJ8.
  • 6922 is premium 6DJ8 type. E88CC is the European numbering for 6922. 
    6922 is slightly different, but is plug-in compatible with 6DJ8/ECC88 for all intent and purposes in audio gear.
  • 6N23P is the Russian 6922 and is also compatible with 6DJ8/6922. Electro-Harmonix 6922EH is derived from this 6N23P. The 6N23P family of tubes have relatively low microphony and noise. 6922EH is by far the best when it comes to low noise, and is recommended for phono or preamp application.
  • PCC88/7DJ8 has different heater, but close enough to make an excellent sub. They sound as good as their NOS 6DJ8 counterparts but at a lower price.
  • Russian 6N1P is similar to 6DJ8 and noted for being very linear. It can sub for 6DJ8, but check with your manufacturer first. 6N1P is sold under different brands, but they are made only by Voskhod factory in Russia with the Flying Rocket logo.

6DJ8 Selection Guide

  • For line stage and CD Player application where gain is low, any of the current production 6DJ8/6922, as well as NOS 6DJ8/6922 and even PCC88 tubes will work well.
  • In high gain application like phono or preamp, microphonics and noise become an issue. 
    Note that microphonics tends to be a problem for all 6DJ8 type tubes, including super expensive NOS 6DJ8 type tubes. The only exception isElectro-Harmonix 6922EH. If you intend to use 6DJ8/6922 in microphonic-sensitive application like phono stage, we recommend 6922EH.

6N230 = 6922 = e88cc  And here is the final ranking! The point average across all songs to the right.

 

Reflektor Holy Grail '75 6N23P SWGP Silver Shields

121.7

Siemens Cca Gray Shield '63s

117.8

Siemen Cca Gray Shield '65s

117.5

Telefunken Ulm E188CC '60s

117.3

Reflektor '74 6N23P SWGP Silver Shields

116.1

Amperex PW D Getter

115.2

Philips Miniwatt SQ E188CC Herleen Halo Getter VR9 '64

114.2

Amperex USN-CEP 7308 White '65 VR5

113.7

Voskhod '75 6N23P Gray Shield SWGP

111.3

Amperex 7308 Green Print '68

109.1

Siemens E88CC '60s Gray

107.6

Telefunken Ulm E88CC '60s

107.5

Reflektor 6N23P '65 Dual Straight Wire Getter

106.8

Valvo Herleen E88CC '67 Large Halo Getter

106.3

Nevz 6N1P-E '66 

105.3

Siemens E88CC '70s Silver

100.0

Mullard England CV2492

94.6


 

Edited by uzzy
sensibility

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Super Wammer
4 hours ago, Spider said:

Hi

I am considering some tube updates for my amp and or phono stage.

3. Any opinion on if new valves in the phono stage or amplifier would yield the best improvement in sound quality?

Tim, I am more & more coming round to the viewpoint that phono stages are very very important, I have heard average systems with a superb phono sound very very good.

WRT handling them, as freefallrob says a clean microfibre cloth & be gentle but firm with them.

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