keiron99

Cannot pass the Hifi News Test LP tests

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Super Wammer

Sorry and i have enjoyed reading this thread and all the great help being offered along the way , but this just reminds me why I knocked Vinyl on the head years ago and do not use it . Get the techniques and work you put in to get the best set up you can but with my mentality I would always be on edge looking for issues that were not there and worrying about the damage I was doing to my records . Good luck to all of you who still work at this and enjoy your music this way , for me this way lies madness .

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" Cannot pass the Hifi News Test LP tests "

Why did you eat it in the first place :o

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1 hour ago, alcarmichael said:

I’m more than happy with how my system sounds right now, I absolutely love it; my concern, having read this thread, is that if I am not absolutely perfect in set up, am I slowly damaging my stylus and/or records? 
Or should I be content that if it sounds good, I am close enough to perfect alignment that I shouldn’t be causing any damage? 

Many modern MC cartridges have trouble passing last track , modulation is way above what you ever experience on a standard record , if your setup sounds good and you don't hear distortion especially end of disk , no excessive sibilance than enjoy it and forget .Alignment apart from 2 points on the disc is never perfect don't worry too much ,

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Super Wammer

Alignment using the cantilever isn't always the best approach, despite its widespread recommendation. This is for two reasons:

1. If there is any residual bias on your arm, this will be reflected in a slight skew of the cantilever which will go when a record is being played.

2. If the cantilever is not central at rest, then the force of playing a record will naturally tend to straighten it out, although if it's a long way off it won't be 100%. This 'straightening' will affect the amount of bias required however.

So in general I agree with using the cantilever as the guide, but not always. In @lostwin 's case, there appears to be some residual bias when set to zero which would affect the cantilever position when rested on the protractor.

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Super Wammer
5 minutes ago, bigfool1956 said:

Alignment using the cantilever isn't always the best approach, despite its widespread recommendation. This is for two reasons:

1. If there is any residual bias on your arm, this will be reflected in a slight skew of the cantilever which will go when a record is being played.

2. If the cantilever is not central at rest, then the force of playing a record will naturally tend to straighten it out, although if it's a long way off it won't be 100%. This 'straightening' will affect the amount of bias required however.

So in general I agree with using the cantilever as the guide, but not always. In @lostwin 's case, there appears to be some residual bias when set to zero which would affect the cantilever position when rested on the protractor.

Sounds logical to me - the real answer is buy a Decca - the stylus is on an armature held with a tie chord to be oriented in the right direction  .. set up is a bitch you need to poke a pin through your protractor  + so that you know the stylus is sitting in the right place as it is not possible to view it ... other than that it is just ensuring the sides of the body are parallel to the protractor lines when the stylus is in the hole .....  Once done as you cannot see the bloody stylus in operation you are never going cranky thinking it might be skewiff - as to test tracks on a test album - just forget to try the highest level for tracking and bias .. some manage it and some don't lol 

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30 minutes ago, bigfool1956 said:

Alignment using the cantilever isn't always the best approach, despite its widespread recommendation. This is for two reasons:

1. If there is any residual bias on your arm, this will be reflected in a slight skew of the cantilever which will go when a record is being played.

2. If the cantilever is not central at rest, then the force of playing a record will naturally tend to straighten it out, although if it's a long way off it won't be 100%. This 'straightening' will affect the amount of bias required however.

So in general I agree with using the cantilever as the guide, but not always. In @lostwin 's case, there appears to be some residual bias when set to zero which would affect the cantilever position when rested on the protractor.

I agree , also angular offset  creates small force and when lowering cartridge body tends to move towards outside of the platter , 

my way is to align stylus so it drops on null point then start slowly lifting cartridge to the point where it barely touches protractor , cantilever comes back to its natural position and you can clearly see alignment lines as cartridge body is way higher then in playing position

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2 hours ago, bencat said:

Sorry and i have enjoyed reading this thread and all the great help being offered along the way , but this just reminds me why I knocked Vinyl on the head years ago and do not use it . Get the techniques and work you put in to get the best set up you can but with my mentality I would always be on edge looking for issues that were not there and worrying about the damage I was doing to my records . Good luck to all of you who still work at this and enjoy your music this way , for me this way lies madness .

I’m very happy to leave you with contemplating power supply upgrades on your streamer, I hear there is plenty of insanity over there 😀

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Another hour or so of checking and testing last night with some improvements but still lingering issues;

- Checked armboard which was confirmed as level however the headshell of the arm was slightly out of level when stylus resting on the record.  I have noticed that when changing VTA - which is a sliding collar with grub screw on my arm - that there is a little side to side play when the grub screw is released, so it is possible when re-tightening to slightly adjust the whole arm assembly.  By doing this i could correct the levelling - effectively a tweak on the azimuth adjustment

-  I increased tracking weight slightly to 2.73g, just over maximum of recommended range

- i was able to find a much clearer optimum setting for bias - 2.3g on my dial - that minimised distortion in the right channel on the tracking tests.  Nevertheless, the right channel is still consistently worse than the left and I still can't clear the 2nd level test (14db) without some distortion in right channel

- Channel balance has improved as by switching to mono I was able to pretty much eliminate L&R output

- No change in resonant frequencies which at 16hz for vertical is higher than ideal and well above the expected arm /cart calculated result 

Next up will be to change the cart (I have a spare Ortofon 2M Bronze) with the resonant frequencies being the main focus - if this is also performing well out of spec this could point to an arm / arm set up issue rather than cart problem.

Thanks to all - and particularly Slav (Mac 72) - for the feedback yesterday, really helpful :^

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HiFi News bias tracks aren’t the best for set up , you will end up with much higher than required anti skate . Not sure how well calibrated bias dial is but I never had to go higher than 2/3rd of tracking force value , in your case 1.7gram . Try and listen to some difficult to track records with setting you got and back it down to 2/3 and 1/2 , in worst case scenario excessive bias would skew cantilever .

Let is know how Bronze tests

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Super Wammer
19 hours ago, lostwin said:

I’m very happy to leave you with contemplating power supply upgrades on your streamer, I hear there is plenty of insanity over there 😀

Ah but will it be an upgrade , a downgrade , a sidegrade or a nullgrade ? No one really cares least of all me and I will remember not to let anyyone know when it has been done and what I thought , this adds to the tension and the mystique .

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