Spider

What speakers would work?

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Looking for a bit of advice and opinion

I sat listening to music last night and the little Royd's seemed to be struggling, I missed what my big Kef 104/2's do. So I wheeled them back into the living room. They give so much more than the Royd's which you would expect. I really like what they do, here comes the but.

But firing across the lounge there is just a bit of flab in the bass and it just overpowers everything else that is happening, it just draws your ear to that bottom end all the time.

What I would like is everything the Kef's do without the bass dominating but still there, if that makes sense.

Room is about 24 foot by 12 foot, speakers firing across the 12 foot. I know the Kef's sound great firing down the 24 foot length but the seating in the room just doesn't work that way. Amp is the Gamma 18w 211 and that isn't changing so they would need to work with this amp.

any ideas for set up or alternative speakers?

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Super Wammer

Move them further into the room away from the wall if you can? Should kill the bass off a bit.

Pics of set up?

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Do you prefer the overall presentation of the kefs over the Royd or is it the scale that the kefs give you that make them more appealing? 

There are some Royd RR2s available at a dealer not too Far away from you if you like the speed of the Royd but want a bit more warmth, composure and scale. Ported on the side. 

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Seems a bit obvious but have you tried to do anything with the ports?

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Have had to set mine up across the short axis of the room as well. I think the first thing is to try moving the speakers. Might need to be a bit asymmetrical, bit more toed-in, bit closer or further apart or nearer/further from the wall. Also if your listening position is back against the wall consider moving it out a little.

 I spent ages mucking about with the position of mine when they were changed from long axis to short axis (eventually bought a laser measuring device as it saved a lot of time) but it is really really worth it to get them right. 

My main advice is not to start with pre-conceived ideas about the ideal position !

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31 minutes ago, Bourney said:

Do you prefer the overall presentation of the kefs over the Royd or is it the scale that the kefs give you that make them more appealing? 

There are some Royd RR2s available at a dealer not too Far away from you if you like the speed of the Royd but want a bit more warmth, composure and scale. Ported on the side. 

Yes it is the scale and all the extra detail that the Kef's bring that I am enjoying, I feel like everything on the record is making its way out of the speakers. Where as the little Royd's just can't convert all the information being fed to them.

31 minutes ago, rv295 said:

Seems a bit obvious but have you tried to do anything with the ports?

No not yet.

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Moderator

They do like an amp that really controls the bass. I know that was a comment that Barrington and Henry made at mine.
Given they sound excellent in a different positions, I would just focus on that for now.

I wouldn't want to damp the port personally as you love the detail. You could try mounting them on different materials too.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

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12 minutes ago, oldius said:

They do like an amp that really controls the bass. I know that was a comment that Barrington and Henry made at mine.
Given they sound excellent in a different positions, I would just focus on that for now.

I wouldn't want to damp the port personally as you love the detail. You could try mounting them on different materials too.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
 

I had considered building a layered plywood base for each of them to sit on, do you think standing them on different materials could help? Another option would be granite or concrete. How might different materials affect the control of bass?

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Tim I have no bloody idea but I know how good the speakers are! I guess something that may stop any undue reflections.

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:rofl:

Yeah I know how good they can be, I'll do a bit of experimenting with position and perhaps try sitting them on some different materials and see if that helps at all.

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I often wondered whether a piece of acoustic foam would be a good stand or a big cube of seating foam for a large standmount.

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Super Wammer
5 hours ago, Spider said:

Looking for a bit of advice and opinion

I sat listening to music last night and the little Royd's seemed to be struggling, I missed what my big Kef 104/2's do. So I wheeled them back into the living room. They give so much more than the Royd's which you would expect. I really like what they do, here comes the but.

But firing across the lounge there is just a bit of flab in the bass and it just overpowers everything else that is happening, it just draws your ear to that bottom end all the time.

What I would like is everything the Kef's do without the bass dominating but still there, if that makes sense.

Room is about 24 foot by 12 foot, speakers firing across the 12 foot. I know the Kef's sound great firing down the 24 foot length but the seating in the room just doesn't work that way. Amp is the Gamma 18w 211 and that isn't changing so they would need to work with this amp.

any ideas for set up or alternative speakers?

Could it be the gamma isn't up to control the bass in the 104/2s? It is an excellent amp but is it a speaker amp mismatch? I don't know but it does beg the question.

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7 hours ago, Spider said:

No not yet.

If you are getting too much bass (which is completely understandable given the dimensions of your listening area) the only thing that is going to make a difference is something that reduces the bass output of the speakers.   

Changing the material that the speakers are standing on will not help reduce the bass in any meaningful way.

There are a number of options. 

If you can't get the bass to an acceptable level by positioning alone then the cheapest option is to play around with the bass port.  I'd start by blocking it off (but not air tight).  Some cloth or foam would do the trick, as long as it's not air tight you'll just get a reduction in bass without effecting the rest of the speaker.  How much and where it reduces the bass is impossible to say, without a way to measure the response it's trial and error.  If blocking the ports reduced the bass too much, try a thinner material.

If you had a microphone to measure the actual bass response, you could re-tune the bass port by adjusting its diameter and length.  The actual adjustment could be done using some foam bungs with plastic tube running through the middle (so it's a cheap option that could be done without leaving a mark on the speakers).  There is software to calculate and simulate the effects of different port sizes plus plenty of clever people on here who could advise.

The next option is to add a minidsp (other dsp units are available), you could tame the bass using room EQ.   

The only other option I can think of (apart from changing your speakers to something that produces less bass) is to add bass traps but that doesn't sound like a realistic option at all.

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Guest

Check with Rick first (as they are his) but you could try the Cyrus CLS70 I have here, no idea how they would work with the Gamma, but they are front ported and have very firm tight bass on the supplied stands when powered by my Rega Mira3 amp.

Other than that, try a big bunch of drinking straws or get some open seal foam/acoustic foam and make a port plug to try.

Edit: Just a thought, you could experiment with a little powered subwoofer, like say a REL quake maybe just to fill in the bottom end of the Royds? Be worth a go, you could dial in the required amount then.

Edit; You could try standing them on firmish sorbothane pads to limit/change the interaction with your floor, I can't remember is it a solid floor or suspended?

Edited by Guest

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I'm with RV295...your prob is your room. A cube is just the very worst shape for accurate bass reproduction in HiFi, and a doubled cube, not much better...so the KEF's (which output a proper healthy bass response), are just being distorted by the room, and the sound from the Royds, which roll off the bass far earlier than the Kefs (I guess) is not influenced in the same way. ANY speaker with powerful bass will have the same problem. If you can live without the deep bass, then find some speakers with a tapered response whose sound is closer to the 104's (smaller KEFs might be a logical start point), but ultimately you need to alter the room, so that it's NOT a double cube. Firing down would be far better if you can position the seating, even as a temporary experiment, about 10 ft from the speaker wall, leaving 14 blank feet behind you. On that back wall, try a large blanket pinned up and something like shelves, a wardrobe, large cabinet, just in front of that. You need to break up the reflected sound waves as much as you can. IF that works, (and it's free) then at least you know what you're dealing with.

Dear Mrs Spider, Mr Spider needs a new listening room...new house? :)

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