Minicoupeman

KK v's ........?

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I was going to write a quick thank you to George47 but in view of the thread regarding Ken Kesller's comments on overpriced hi fi I am bumping up my game!  George put me on to Nord Amplifiers.  I won't bore you but I have owned some very good amplifiers in my time, some considered industry standards.  IMO the Nord is the best amplifier I have ever owned and cost less than two grand.  Because of the Nord I valued Georges advice and sent off (unheard) for a Hattor Passive with separate Valve gain stage (for LP).  I have had it a bit more than a week.  It is extraordinary and I am told it will get better.  Just over 2k this time.  In short - take out the marketing hype (very expensive are full page colour advertisements ) take out the import costs, the distributer margins, the Dealer mark up, the cost of professional packing, the colour booklet, the instructions in 10 languages and what have you left?  A number of people - Colin at Nord and Arek in Poland who are both contactable by email or phone, are happy to advise and keep thier customers updated with the build and shipping/delivery and deliver EXCELLENT PRODUCTS AT AFFORDABLE PRICES!

(Rant over)

I guess these are not the only ones and Hi Fi Dealers have a worth but move outside the pages of the specialist press and you will be surprised by what is out there.

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Cheers Andy.

I have the Nord and Hattor on at the moment as it is too hot for valves. And dam good it sounds too. I have mentioned the Nords to two close friends. I took the Nord to their places and both have since sold their good power amps (Linn and McIntosh) to get the Nords. And picky devils they are too. :D

I am really pleased to get such good, inexpensive products to review and it was goo to hear that Nord are doing really well in Aus and Japan. In fact there was a little kerfuffle as it was at one point cheaper to buy the Nord rather than buy the bits from Hypex and DiY.

Yes there are some cracking products out there (and unfortunately some less good). Now add a good cheap front end (Metrum?) and speakers (??) and you would need to spend well over £10K to get something really better.

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On 6/15/2017 at 16:44, Minicoupeman said:

I was going to write a quick thank you to George47 but in view of the thread regarding Ken Kesller's comments on overpriced hi fi I am bumping up my game!  George put me on to Nord Amplifiers.  I won't bore you but I have owned some very good amplifiers in my time, some considered industry standards.  IMO the Nord is the best amplifier I have ever owned and cost less than two grand.  Because of the Nord I valued Georges advice and sent off (unheard) for a Hattor Passive with separate Valve gain stage (for LP).  I have had it a bit more than a week.  It is extraordinary and I am told it will get better.  Just over 2k this time.  In short - take out the marketing hype (very expensive are full page colour advertisements ) take out the import costs, the distributer margins, the Dealer mark up, the cost of professional packing, the colour booklet, the instructions in 10 languages and what have you left?  A number of people - Colin at Nord and Arek in Poland who are both contactable by email or phone, are happy to advise and keep thier customers updated with the build and shipping/delivery and deliver EXCELLENT PRODUCTS AT AFFORDABLE PRICES!

(Rant over)

I guess these are not the only ones and Hi Fi Dealers have a worth but move outside the pages of the specialist press and you will be surprised by what is out there.

The problem comes with the word "affordable" .. what may be affordable to you and me is not affordable to someone else or for those with money to burn, they want to spend more cos affordable to them is a whole lot more.  I also know a number of manufacturers who make top of the range stuff that is totally unaffordable to me but they act in the way you mention above, little advertising budget talk to the on the phone etc. etc. 

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one forum i am on has 115 pages on nord so some people must like them methinks^_^

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Of course they do but it is the mass adoration .. I feel sorry for someone who feels they have to have thousands of other people liking something to make sure they made the right choice (instead of trusting their own ears and being happy with how it sounds regardless of what anyone else says) :) 

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Does anyone think they'd beat my Cyrus power amps, which I'd grant are expensive for what they are. Have heard lots of good things too. Also any dealers who lend them on home loan to let you try? Also how about reliability?

Edited by Guest

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Amps better than Cyrus; Would you like a chronological or alphabetical list? :D Wait six months and Cyrus will provide a 'significant upgrade'.

Uzzy it is good to get both, a good sounding amp using my ears which is confirmed by 115 pages of other users. Don't need them but good to see.

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1 hour ago, SpringerSpaniel said:

Does anyone think they'd beat my Cyrus power amps, which I'd grant are expensive for what they are. Have heard lots of good things too. Also any dealers who lend them on home loan to let you try? Also how about reliability?

I used to own a Cyrus pre/power set up (Pre-X/PSX-R + 2 x aPA7.5) and it was comprehensively thrashed by an older and much cheaper Rotel pre/power set up.  After hearing the difference I sold the Cyrus gear and bought the Rotel system, which in turn was ousted by an even cheaper Chinese 300B integrated.

There is occasionally a relationship between price and sound quality, IME, but there are many exceptions.

BTW the elderly Rotel gear was 100% reliable, but the Chinese valve amp, er, wasn't. xD

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8 minutes ago, meninblack said:

I used to own a Cyrus pre/power set up (Pre-X/PSX-R + 2 x aPA7.5) and it was comprehensively thrashed by an older and much cheaper Rotel pre/power set up.  After hearing the difference I sold the Cyrus gear and bought the Rotel system, which in turn was ousted by an even cheaper Chinese 300B integrated.

There is occasionally a relationship between price and sound quality, IME, but there are many exceptions.

BTW the elderly Rotel gear was 100% reliable, but the Chinese valve amp, er, wasn't. xD

Thanks for feedback. I think my Cyrus amps are somewhat different but I'm going to go to lots of bake offs and see if anything is cheaper and better, but the synergy of Cyrus top dac xp signature and mono x200/x300 signature power amps, works extremely well together. 

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Bake-offs are the way to go.  If you can, take your own speakers along.  Speaker/amp matching is key, and a bit of a black art. Much more important IME than source/amp matching.

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Amp-'speaker matching MAY be an issue with certain amps and certain 'speakers, but I don't understand why source-amp matching is ever an issue. It's trivially easy to get that right, and pretty difficult to get it wrong.

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Absolutely Serge;

Let's see how about Linn Saras and Quad 405s...nope...the Saras are not too efficient and have a very low impedance that draws too much current from the Quads, which will shut down. Or any other amp not able to deliver high current into low impedance speakers.

OK how about a set of efficient Wilson Puppy...92db efficient so do not need too much power and an Arcam 100 watter....Nope...1.8 ohms in the bass with a huge phase shift

OK how about 89db efficient Magicos with a nice Cyrus 100w amp...Nope weak ineffective bass.

Ok how about a bright amp (Behringer) with a nice set of Focal speakers.....dentist drilling time.

B&W 800D3s with a tilted up HF with any amp that has any problems with HF.

This is easy....O.o

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4 minutes ago, George 47 said:

Absolutely Serge;

Let's see how about Linn Saras and Quad 405s...nope...the Saras are not too efficient and have a very low impedance that draws too much current from the Quads, which will shut down. Or any other amp not able to deliver high current into low impedance speakers.

OK how about a set of efficient Wilson Puppy...92db efficient so do not need too much power and an Arcam 100 watter....Nope...1.8 ohms in the bass with a huge phase shift

OK how about 89db efficient Magicos with a nice Cyrus 100w amp...Nope weak ineffective bass.

Ok how about a bright amp (Behringer) with a nice set of Focal speakers.....dentist drilling time.

B&W 800D3s with a tilted up HF with any amp that has any problems with HF.

This is easy....O.o

As I said, I can see some possible issue with certain loudspeakers and certain amps. (Although Behringers are completely neutral, not bright at all) but what possible issues could there be with sources and amps? If there are some weird sources, or amps, why would anyone want to use them, ever?

What ever happened to applying sensible technical standards?

S

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2 minutes ago, SergeAuckland said:

As I said, I can see some possible issue with certain loudspeakers and certain amps. (Although Behringers are completely neutral, not bright at all) but what possible issues could there be with sources and amps? If there are some weird sources, or amps, why would anyone want to use them, ever?

What ever happened to applying sensible technical standards?

S

Get with it man hifi standards disappeared years ago?? 

Vinyl is 33.3, 45 and 78 rpm.

Digital is MP3, 16/44.1, 24/96, 24/48, 24/192, DSD, DSD128,DSD64, Flac,AIFF, WAV

phono outputs are 0.5V, 0.75V, 2V, 10V.

Line stages are 0.775V, 2V, 4V

speaker cables are Speakathon, 6mm, spades, bare wire

And all the others. A battle well and truly lost.

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All of those are perfectly sensible and accommodated by just about anything sensible. As I said above, with so many perfectly sensible products why are we so stupid as to even entertain products that aren't? Consequently, the question of source to amplifier matching is just a non-issue unless one deliberately wants to be stupid about HiFi matching and enjoys being different for the sheer joy of being so.

Not anything I'd understand or have any sympathy for.

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