Emlin

On this day, Jesus the Christ rose from the dead.

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14 minutes ago, Ron Hilditch said:

2000 years and countless millions of people believing.  Are they all wrong?

Yip. Most likely. But that doesn't mean that faith and religion are automatically wrong or should be ridiculed...imo.

2 hours ago, Ron Hilditch said:

While I am as guilty as anyone contributing to this blog.  It is all rather strange?   Our hobby is based on subjective judgement, or put another way faith.  I have faith that my system sounds as good as any other for round the same money?  Can I prove it? No!  Maybe it is, or maybe I'm trying to justify spending so much money on it.  Look at it this way!  HiFi won't rot my teeth or give me clap.  

You stretch the point too far. In any case, you describe preference, not the act of faith itself.

Edited by savvypaul

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Super Wammer
14 minutes ago, Camverton said:

This little cycle could go on forever - talking of which, is it time to discuss infinity and how religious beliefs might make it apparently easier to comprehend?

Anyway, I don't have to speak for Crisis. My Request is that you provide evidence for your "faith" being based on fact. Apologies if you have already done so in this thread but it is long and life is too short to read it all again. So, just a quick summary of your evidence.

If you had read the thread though (and I understand why you haven't, it's huge!), you'd see we've sailed around this buoy before. Why on earth should someone who believes/has faith be asked to "prove" the validity of that faith using evidence? To constitute evidence it would have to be objectively proven to be true; if this was possible then we'd all be believers (though the term would be inappropriate). It's as silly a test as being asked to prove some theory by Newton or Einstein using only the Bible.

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Yus. Broadly, I agree with the above.

We all seek something different, and at one end of the scale are people who seek nothing at all. Why don't they should be the first question.

At the other end, are those endlessly puzzled by life, the universe, death etc etc. Why are they would be the obvious second question.

But both questions are misleading. I'd first ask why we are all different in those ways.Why do we have such varied needs?

When that's worked out you know why this thread must exist, and why it can never be answered.

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3 minutes ago, TheFlash said:

If you had read the thread though (and I understand why you haven't, it's huge!), you'd see we've sailed around this buoy before. Why on earth should someone who believes/has faith be asked to "prove" the validity of that faith using evidence? To constitute evidence it would have to be objectively proven to be true; if this was possible then we'd all be believers (though the term would be inappropriate). It's as silly a test as being asked to prove some theory by Newton or Einstein using only the Bible.

Yes, if you read my words, I said I didn't want to read it again, as in I have already read it once and cannot recall any evidence for the existence of a creator god etc. For me the only need to provide evidence for their faith are from the ones who insist on waving it about in public or trying to persuade we non believers of the veracity of their faith. That millions of people believe something is not evidence that it is true.

As for your last point, quite so! The bible is a not a good source IMO for proving anything other than as a document for the ideas and imagination of certain human beings a while ago. Damn good story that it may be.

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2 minutes ago, rockmeister said:

Yus. Broadly, I agree with the above.

We all seek something different, and at one end of the scale are people who seek nothing at all. Why don't they should be the first question.

At the other end, are those endlessly puzzled by life, the universe, death etc etc. Why are they would be the obvious second question.

But both questions are misleading. I'd first ask why we are all different in those ways.Why do we have such varied needs?

When that's worked out you know why this thread must exist, and why it can never be answered.

How did it all happen? An infinite universe and probably much more beyond?  If you believe in God as the Creator, then were did he come from?  Some people as the previous blog said, are people who seek nothing at all.  Others look for answers.  Call it faith or any other label you want to stick on it.

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Super Wammer

Surely dropping it would prove one :D

Edited by greybeard
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38 minutes ago, Black Beard said:

But they happy in their faith so leave 'em be I say.

That is a good attitude to have, me hearty. Unfortunately, it is the anti-theists who take a more radical approach.

40 minutes ago, Black Beard said:

Tis the cynical organisation and bureaucracy of faith that be worthy of scorn and criticism, for they only serve themselves.

I wholeheartedly agree, and a cursory reading of this entire thread will show that I have consistently held that view.

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10 minutes ago, greybeard said:

Surely dropping it would prove one :D

Brilliant :D but I think you’re quoting TheFlash ;-)

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Super Wammer
17 minutes ago, Camverton said:

Yes, if you read my words, I said I didn't want to read it again, as in I have already read it once and cannot recall any evidence for the existence of a creator god etc. For me the only need to provide evidence for their faith are from the ones who insist on waving it about in public or trying to persuade we non believers of the veracity of their faith. That millions of people believe something is not evidence that it is true.

As for your last point, quite so! The bible is a not a good source IMO for proving anything other than as a document for the ideas and imagination of certain human beings a while ago. Damn good story that it may be.

Sorry I missed the key word. I think if there had been any evidence you would have recalled it as it would be a game-changer as they say...

Re believers trying to persuade non-believers: evidence is irrelevant here of course. They can quote the Bible, tell of personal moments of enlightenment or whatever other "marketing" methods they wish to use as far as I'm concerned. And it is of course a two-way street: a huge number of posts on this very thread have been by non-believers persuading/marketing believers. They have no evidence God does not exist of course. This is unlikely ever to be resolved but one can learn from observation/participation as you and I appear to be.

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Super Wammer
37 minutes ago, TheFlash said:

It's as silly a test as being asked to prove some theory by Newton or Einstein using only the Bible.

Surely dropping it would prove one :D

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Moderator
Just now, greybeard said:

Surely dropping it would prove one :D

There's an echo...

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Super Wammer
18 minutes ago, greybeard said:

Surely dropping it would prove one :D

and if it rose again three days later, we'd all be recalibrating.

1 minute ago, Tony_J said:

There's an echo...

I think that's worth repeating.

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Super Wammer

Quoted the wrong person, first time ….ooops

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1 minute ago, Tony_J said:

There's an echo...

And if it happens again it will be evidence of that trinity, threesome thingamyjig 

1 minute ago, greybeard said:

Quoted the wrong person, first time ….ooops

Fear not, nothing of this really matters in the real world ;-)

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On 27/07/2018 at 19:04, TheFlash said:

You don't go out and buy What Religion? magazine and pick the one with the prettiest symbol

Awesome.

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