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Is HiFI Dead?

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3 minutes ago, MartinC said:

Seriously? That's nuts.

2 minutes ago, Bazzer said:

We'll have the odd short lived revival , I myself got a R2R last year , the novelty wore off pretty quick .

Yeah I imagine it will be a few years tops, but according to my marketing guys, the growth has been ridiculous. Stupid really, there was nothing ever good about cassettes the first time. Can market b*****s to anyone I guess , like 10k DACS.

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53 minutes ago, The Chronicals said:

Space is also an issue. Houses/flats young people have to live in (if they are very lucky) are a lot smaller than the houses the average older person owns. We now have 'accommodation' not 'homes', so trying to have the space to fit life into a shoebox, but also then something as decadent and physically large is also going to be difficult. The additional cost is also a major factor, a vast majority live hand to mouth and on credit, spunking a grand on some Hifi is far less of a priority than feeding themselves.

So yes, it is dying out, but more because life, especially in the UK is horrendous for young people financially. 

Add in the fact very few younger people have any sort of assured tenancy and the idea of having to move and set up your system in a different sized space every 6 months to a year becomes very unattractive.

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Just now, J Macquarrie said:

Add in the fact very few younger people have any sort of assured tenancy and the idea of having to move and set up your system in a different sized space every 6 months to a year becomes very unattractive.

Yes definitely!

I think we should probably group this around 'housing' rather than space.

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19 minutes ago, The Chronicals said:

A student dosent have the money to buy hifi these days, they have to pay their fees.

If you don't think space is an issue in modern life, you might be a little out of touch or live in the countryside somewhere.

I didn't say space in general wasn't an issue just that it doesn't stop someone getting into hifi. At one point I was running by first system in a room where the short dimension was only a tiny bit longer than a single bed, and the other dimension was I'd guess something like 50 cm longer. I've lived in lots of 'compact' accommodation in my time.

What students spend money on is a matter of priorities now just as much as it was when I was a student. 

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4 minutes ago, MartinC said:

I didn't say space in general wasn't an issue just that it doesn't stop someone getting into hifi. At one point I was running by first system in a room where the short dimension was only a tiny bit longer than a single bed, and the other dimension was I'd guess something like 50 cm longer. I've lived in lots of 'compact' accommodation in my time.

What students spend money on is a matter of priorities now just as much as it was when I was a student. 

You won't have had kick ass speaker boxes back then nor would have had a streaming market, and you also won't have had any other means to play music other than with tape decks, turntables and radios, which explains why you had to buy boxes. 

Also, you didn't have to pay your own fee's and you got a grant, so if you class those as a 'priority' then yeah sure. For me, thats a necessity, not a priority.

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23 minutes ago, J Macquarrie said:

Add in the fact very few younger people have any sort of assured tenancy and the idea of having to move and set up your system in a different sized space every 6 months to a year becomes very unattractive.

I've moved systems between different rooms/homes a lot over the years. 

Most people just don't have a basic amplifier and set of even vaguely competent speakers. A lack of stability has put me off spending serious money on more of an ultimate system (for me) in the past but I see no reason it needs to be a complete barrier to entry level setups. It's the lack of the first step that I think should be seen as most worrying for the future of the industry.

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2 minutes ago, The Chronicals said:

You won't have had kick ass speaker boxes back then nor would have had a streaming market, and you also won't have had any other means to play music other than with tape decks, turntables and radios, which explains why you had to buy boxes. 

Also, you didn't have to pay your own fee's and you got a grant, so if you class those as a 'priority' then yeah sure. For me, thats a necessity, not a priority.

You seem to have missed that I said I'm 42. My first system was CD based :P.

I understand the funding differences but my point about priorities absolutely stands. The amount students typically spend on the likes of mobile phones, alcohol and eating out are all choices on how they prioritise spending for example.

University fees aren't paid up front, and whilst I did get a small grant I was by no means flush with cash, with it taking vacation work in addition for me to cover my accommodation and living costs. I did though manage to leave university without any debt which I do of course realise is a long way from the current reality. The point at hand though is spending whilst at university.

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1 minute ago, MartinC said:

You seem to have missed that I said I'm 42. My first system was CD based :P.

I understand the funding differences but my point about priorities absolutely stands. The amount students typically spend on the likes of mobile phones, alcohol and eating out are all choices on how they prioritise spending for example.

University fees aren't paid up front, and whilst I did get a small grant I was by no means flush with cash, with it taking vacation work in addition for me to cover my accommodation and living costs. I did though manage to leave university without any debt which I do of course realise is a long way from the current reality. The point at hand though is spending whilst at university.

Yes so you needed a CD Player as opposed to a cassette deck, semantics.

It's not so much what those 'typically' spend, it's the cost of modern life as an all encompassing reality, its hugely more expensive than it was 25 years ago and with streaming being the media of choice, and space being a huge issue and the cost of life bigger, speaker boxes are far more the norm. You can't really debate that at all to be fair.

How much where you fee's at university? You probably wearnt far off me, you probably didn't pay anything, I was the first year I think of contributions based fee's, and it was about 1.6-3k a year which I had to work weekends and evenings to pay for, now its triple that I believe. On top of this I left university with around 35K of loan debt. Man I wish I made it even bigger spunking it on some hifi I'd have to move from pillar to post every six months. That makes real priority.

So maybe what you are debating is that students are just more sensible these days.

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Its all about context .

Many of we on these pages  remember the HiFi boom years of the late 70 /early  80's.

Hi Fi was the trendy hi tech thing is those days ...for younger and older  folk alike ...and every town centre had at least a couple of "Hi Fi shops " .

Music itself was also a bigger thing in many  folks lives than it is today ....especially for the younger generations, for whom gaming and social media  take up much of the time music would once have occupied in their conscience.

But Just because HiFi can no longer be  the big thing it was for a while doesn't mean it has one foot in the grave .

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4 minutes ago, Smokestack said:

Its all about context .

Many of we on these pages  remember the HiFi boom years of the late 70 /early  80's.

And most of the kit being sold was sh#t.

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9 minutes ago, The Chronicals said:

It's not so much what those 'typically' spend, it's the cost of modern life as an all encompassing reality, its hugely more expensive than it was 25 years ago and with streaming being the media of choice, and space being a huge issue and the cost of life bigger, speaker boxes are far more the norm. You can't really debate that at all to be fair.

I can you know. Let's see some evidence to prove your point that the basic cost of living is somehow hugely more expensive than it was 25 years ago. It's not at all obvious to me that it should be.

On the space front my first speakers were a pair of Mission 731i standmounts, which are pretty small but still better than most people own. I still have mine in fact. 

Quote

How much where you fee's at university? You probably wearnt far off me, you probably didn't pay anything, I was the first year I think of contributions based fee's, and it was about 1.6-3k a year which I had to work weekends and evenings to pay for, now its triple that I believe. On top of this I left university with around 35K of loan debt. Man I wish I made it even bigger spunking it on some hifi I'd have to move from pillar to post every six months. That makes real priority.

I covered this above.

Quote

So maybe what you are debating is that students are just more sensible these days.

I am and always have been very careful with my money. Most would no doubt argue overly and boringly so. But what I can categorically say is that this is not a factor in your favour in this discussion.

Edited by MartinC

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5 hours ago, MartinC said:

You seem to have missed that I said I'm 42. My first system was CD based :P.

Who let all these kids in here?  :D

What a depressing lot you are. I went to CanJam last year and it was full of people who were not old enough to be policemen. They were carrying their music in and connected up to the headphones on sale. There was great interest in amplifers for headphones and the new headphones had groups of youger people swarming around them. I went into a boutique headphone room and one guy had just ordered £7K's worth of phones and amps. Of course headphones get short shrift here so no interest. These guys are very internet savvy. The talk by Rob Watts was nearly full and he had a great deal of questions. Fortunately, they kept the old duffers away. 

If they want to try something a litle different (an audio system), where do they go......somehwere where headphones are not looked down on.

No developments/advances......Class D, active speakers like the Kiis and D&D and Linn, DACs are somewhat different from 5 year old ones...oh and super quality cassettes recorded on Nakamichi decks. And there is..........

Yes there is super bling with the Asian and Russian markets especially in London....KJ West One.....but that is where the money is (was?) and as we have seen with Naim, the Statement amplifier was for that market but all the amplifiers gained from the introduction of the 009 transistor.

Ohhhhh have you seen the weather, the summer is over and global warming is making it too warm...and.......did you know the sky is falling in?? :o :o

Edited by George 47
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8 minutes ago, MartinC said:

I can you know. Let's see some evidence to prove your point that the basic cost of living is somehow hugely more expensive than it was 25 years ago. It's not at all obvious to me that it should be.

On the space front my first speakers were a pair of Mission 731i standmounts, which are pretty small but still better than most people own. I still have mine in fact. 

I covered this above.

I am and always have been very careful with my money. Most would no doubt argue overly and boringly so. But what I can categorically say is that this is not a factor in your favour in this discussion.

It's all fairly obvious, one being that now a young person cant even get a mortgage by working 40-50 hours a week. 

Theres plenty of evidence out there if you need to look. Use Google. 

You didn't 'cover' my question, did you pay fee's while at university and did you take out loans?

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3 minutes ago, George 47 said:

Who let all these kids in here?  :D

What a depressing lot you are. I went to CanJam last year and it was full of people who were not old enough to be policemen. They were carrying their music in and connected up to the headphones on sale. There was great interest in amplifers for headphones and the new headphones had groups of youger people swarming around them. I went into a boutique headphone room and one guy had just ordered £7K's worth of phones and amps. Of course headphones get short shrift here so no interest. These guys are very internet savvy. The talk by Rob Watts was nearly full and he had a great deal of questions. Fortunately, they kept the old duffers away. 

This is a great observation, as space and housing is such an issue, people are warming towards headphones (as well as utilitising their mobility advantages) to get a good sound.

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35 minutes ago, George 47 said:

Who let all these kids in here?  :D

What a depressing lot you are. I went to CanJam last year and it was full of people who were not old enough to be policemen. They were carrying their music in and connected up to the headphones on sale. There was great interest in amplifers for headphones and the new headphones had groups of youger people swarming around them. I went into a boutique headphone room and one guy had just ordered £7K's worth of phones and amps. Of course headphones get short shrift here so no interest. These guys are very internet savvy. The talk by Rob Watts was nearly full and he had a great deal of questions. Fortunately, they kept the old duffers away. 

If they want to try something a litle different (an audio system), where do they go......somehwere where headphones are not looked down on.

No developments/advances......Class D, active speakers like the Kiis and D&D and Linn, DACs are somewhat different from 5 year old ones...oh and super quality cassettes recorded on Nakamichi decks. And there is..........

Yes there is super bling with the Asian and Russian markets especially in London....KJ West One.....but that is where the money is (was?) and as we have seen with Naim, the Statement amplifier was for that market but all the amplifiers gained from the introduction of the 009 transistor.

Ohhhhh have you seen the weather, the summer is over and global warming is making it too warm...and.......did you know the sky is falling in?? :o :o

This is encoraging and shows that hifi is far from dead where headphones are concerned. I believe that Rob Watt's talk was about the Mscaler and upsampling.  To my ears this is a technology which has raised the bar so things are moving forward where digital is concerned. What we need to see is people with qua!ity headphone systems investing in speaker based systems. I think an obsticle is the diversity of music around now compared to forty years ago. Private listening is the in thing.

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