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3 hours ago, Boris the Animal said:

I suspect what I’m asking is very difficult for most people to advise on but those with two subs (or even one) could possibly help me through some experimentation (quite a big ask really). If using the sub with the signal from one channel only gives me 99% of the performance for 99% of the time then I’m good.

Boris, I run a Primare i32 which has the same issue of the inverted and reversed speaker output.  I have asked a similar question and have ended up with using a cheap Y splitter on the Pre outs to common up the left and right channels and then a Mark Grant subwoofer cable into the low input on my T5i.  Now admittedly, my sub is located behind the right speaker which is next to the equipment rack, so not far to run but I have only found a good response and do not feel the need to try the high level connections.  Both connections (high and low) go through the same set of filters on the pcb so I can't really see why it would matter?  I'd rather have all of the information, all of the time rather than some of the information some of the time.

Good luck in any case.

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4 hours ago, MartinC said:

What was the answer to my question about how long the interconnect would need to be? I asked as long leads to subs can be their own issue in terms of increasing the chance of mains noise being picked up, increasing 50 Hz noise from the sub.

I wouldn't use only one channel myself as I know there definitely are cases where music information is lost as a result but this doesn't necessarily mean that a long interconnect is the way to go for you.

Could you move the amp closer just for testing purposes?

I have a duct through the wall but it would need a couple of metres if the amp is in the usual position, a little less with some fiddling. I suppose I could buy a cheap cable for experimentation purposes - not sure how critical quality might be for a sub.

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1 hour ago, Boycie said:

Boris, I run a Primare i32 which has the same issue of the inverted and reversed speaker output.  I have asked a similar question and have ended up with using a cheap Y splitter on the Pre outs to common up the left and right channels and then a Mark Grant subwoofer cable into the low input on my T5i.  Now admittedly, my sub is located behind the right speaker which is next to the equipment rack, so not far to run but I have only found a good response and do not feel the need to try the high level connections.  Both connections (high and low) go through the same set of filters on the pcb so I can't really see why it would matter?  I'd rather have all of the information, all of the time rather than some of the information some of the time.

Good luck in any case.

That’s an interesting idea Boyce, thanks. If you disconnect one pre out to the splitter can you hear any difference?

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2 minutes ago, Boris the Animal said:

That’s an interesting idea Boyce, thanks. If you disconnect one pre out to the splitter can you hear any difference?

To be honest I haven't tried it since I connected it this way.  However, whilst waiting for the cable and splitter to arrive, I did put a cheap interconnect on one side only and it was ok but I suspect that it would be mix dependant, as to where the bass has been placed, as most of the time it was fine.  However, now having both channels connected, it seems to have a touch more grunt about the bass, although it never seems stray into the 'thumpy' territory, thankfully.  I listened to Marillion live at the Royal Albert Hall last night and it seems to lift everything, which is good :D

If it helps, the Mark Grant cable I bought was 1.5m and was £32.50, so I can't imagine that a 2m one will be much more.

A friend has a T5i and just uses the right hand speaker to run from to the high level input and he says that it can be a bit up and down as when it's good, it's very good but on other tracks it isn't as good so I am concluding that it is the mix and where the bass is placed that accounts for this.

If you want to try it out, I have a spare Y adapter that you can have.

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5 minutes ago, Boycie said:

To be honest I haven't tried it since I connected it this way.  However, whilst waiting for the cable and splitter to arrive, I did put a cheap interconnect on one side only and it was ok but I suspect that it would be mix dependant, as to where the bass has been placed, as most of the time it was fine.  However, now having both channels connected, it seems to have a touch more grunt about the bass, although it never seems stray into the 'thumpy' territory, thankfully.  I listened to Marillion live at the Royal Albert Hall last night and it seems to lift everything, which is good :D

If it helps, the Mark Grant cable I bought was 1.5m and was £32.50, so I can't imagine that a 2m one will be much more.

A friend has a T5i and just uses the right hand speaker to run from to the high level input and he says that it can be a bit up and down as when it's good, it's very good but on other tracks it isn't as good so I am concluding that it is the mix and where the bass is placed that accounts for this.

If you want to try it out, I have a spare Y adapter that you can have.

That’s all interesting. You have convinced me to give this approach a try. Might need to budget for wine and flowers for the neighbours though to get me through the assessment phase!

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27 minutes ago, Boris the Animal said:

I have a duct through the wall but it would need a couple of metres if the amp is in the usual position, a little less with some fiddling. I suppose I could buy a cheap cable for experimentation purposes - not sure how critical quality might be for a sub.

2 m would be no problem at all.

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12 minutes ago, Boycie said:

However, now having both channels connected, it seems to have a touch more grunt about the bass, although it never seems stray into the 'thumpy' territory, thankfully.

Did you adjust the sub gain when you went from 1 channel to 2? If not you'll likely have doubled the input signal level...

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5 minutes ago, Boris the Animal said:

That’s all interesting. You have convinced me to give this approach a try. Might need to budget for wine and flowers for the neighbours though to get me through the assessment phase!

I can't see that you have anything to lose....well apart from a bottle of wine, flowers and good relations with your neighbours, that is! :D  To be honest, even if you don't hear much improvement, at least you will have all low bass that is on the tracks so you won't be missing out on anything.

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1 minute ago, MartinC said:

Did you adjust the sub gain when you went from 1 channel to 2? If not you'll likely have doubled the input signal level...

Valid point, no I just swapped the cabling over and while it's not 'night and day' the perception is that there is just a little bit more solidity to things, not necessarily additional volume but I hadn't thought about doubling the input.

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Super Wammer
On 20/07/2021 at 13:24, Boycie said:

Valid point, no I just swapped the cabling over and while it's not 'night and day' the perception is that there is just a little bit more solidity to things, not necessarily additional volume but I hadn't thought about doubling the input.

If you're comparing sound quality, keeping the volume level the same is important. I've seen a good few hifi demos where the volume has, to me, audibly increased and with that comes impact, detail, dynamism, etc. Any smartphone can easily act as a db-meter to make sure all is fair!

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40 minutes ago, TheFlash said:

If you're comparing sound quality, keeping the volume level the same is important. I've seen a good few hifi demos where the volume has, to me, audibly increased and with that comes impact, detail, dynamism, etc. Any smartphone can easily act as a db-meter to make sure all is fair!

Yes, I agree.  I left all settings the same and changed the cables over.  It didn't sound louder it just brought more air around the instruments and that in turn added more solidity to the overall sound.

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Super Wammer
2 hours ago, Boycie said:

Yes, I agree.  I left all settings the same and changed the cables over.  It didn't sound louder it just brought more air around the instruments and that in turn added more solidity to the overall sound.

Sorry to be stubborn, but I'm not sure you see my point.... (I think I see yours: you didn't change the volume). It's important you confirm the actual volume is the same, as measured on a db-meter. Some cables are engineered to suppress certain frequencies with an impact on the sound and/or volume.

Do you have a smartphone? If so, download a db-meter from the app store and this will be good enough for your needs. Look at something like the average volume over 1 minute of a track; repeat with cable 2. With luck it will be identical; if it's not adjust the volume as required so the measurement is identical, and repeat.

I'm hoping you are genuinely hearing differences between cables and you know which one to keep! It's just important to rule out the volume angle by measuring it. Hope this helps, ignore if not!

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36 minutes ago, TheFlash said:

Some cables are engineered to suppress certain frequencies with an impact on the sound and/or volume.

Just in case you've missed it, the key point here is about comparing stereo and mono input signals rather than specifically cable properties like this.

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9 hours ago, TheFlash said:

Sorry to be stubborn, but I'm not sure you see my point.... (I think I see yours: you didn't change the volume). It's important you confirm the actual volume is the same, as measured on a db-meter. Some cables are engineered to suppress certain frequencies with an impact on the sound and/or volume.

Do you have a smartphone? If so, download a db-meter from the app store and this will be good enough for your needs. Look at something like the average volume over 1 minute of a track; repeat with cable 2. With luck it will be identical; if it's not adjust the volume as required so the measurement is identical, and repeat.

I'm hoping you are genuinely hearing differences between cables and you know which one to keep! It's just important to rule out the volume angle by measuring it. Hope this helps, ignore if not!

Sorry Flash, you aren't being stubborn and thanks for the detailed explanation. The original cable was a cheap ixos interconnect which I used just to get the sub up and running whilst waiting for the new decent cable to arrive.  Not wishing to start a cable wars discussion (there's been plenty of those before 🤪) all I was alluding to was that the sound now has more solidity to it than before.  However, if the weather doesn't play ball this weekend I may try your suggestion just to see if this is partly down to an actual increase in volume due to the different cables or because of the single channel of stereo/2 channel into mono reason.

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Super Wammer
10 hours ago, MartinC said:

Just in case you've missed it, the key point here is about comparing stereo and mono input signals rather than specifically cable properties like this.

I’d missed it. I thought it was about two cables in the same position/config. 
My point about measured volume remains valid though. Increased volume can explain some sonic differences (some cable manufacturers use the trick as I’ve witnessed). It does no harm to check that the volume hitting your ears is identical… 

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