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kl122002

Upgrading Linn T-Kable, need advice

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2 hours ago, Ben Webster said:

Not sure. At least I‘m not. I try to get as much emotion as I can. I don‘t care if it sounds exactly like the original because I don‘t know how it should. Ok, in most cases the most emotional setup is also near the original. But the ranking is clear: emotion first, technicaly perfect reproduction last.

Emotion in music can be had from any exciting to you music played over any system. You certainly don’t need a resolving system to get emotion out of music, a decent table radio will give you that.

Hearing the closest reproduction to the sound of live unamplified instruments in your own home is what most a’philes are trying to accomplish...and that takes a system that can resolve as close as possible the sound of ‘live’unamplified instruments. 
IOW, the “fool me effect”...which by definition should not only be musical, but should also be resolved.

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4 hours ago, Daveyf said:

Hearing the closest reproduction to the sound of live unamplified instruments in your own home is what most a’philes are trying to accomplish

So maybe Linn is not the brand for „most a‘philes“ - or at least not for you.

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38 minutes ago, Ben Webster said:

So maybe Linn is not the brand for „most a‘philes“ - or at least not for you.

The LP12 is an excellent table with a few short comings...the rest of the line...like you say, not for me. If you look at my list of gear, I think you can see that.

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5 hours ago, Daveyf said:

The LP12 is an excellent table with a few short comings...the rest of the line...like you say, not for me. If you look at my list of gear, I think you can see that.

From your previous comments, I can understand that. I get the feeling that what Linn is trying to achieve with its current products is not what you are trying to achieve in your system. Horses for courses. Of course that brings us back to the old, old problem that it is difficult to argue than any piece of Hi-fi gear is objectively "good" or "bad". You can of course take comfort in the fact that there are a lot of LP12 owners out there who share your view, at least to some extent. Ironically perhaps, while the LP12 is the first and perhaps the only piece of Linn gear these folk will buy, it was actually the last one that I bought; what sold (or perhaps re-sold) me on Linn gear was what they are doing with digital streaming.

David

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, DavidHB said:

From your previous comments, I can understand that. I get the feeling that what Linn is trying to achieve with its current products is not what you are trying to achieve in your system. Horses for courses. Of course that brings us back to the old, old problem that it is difficult to argue than any piece of Hi-fi gear is objectively "good" or "bad". You can of course take comfort in the fact that there are a lot of LP12 owners out there who share your view, at least to some extent. Ironically perhaps, while the LP12 is the first and perhaps the only piece of Linn gear these folk will buy, it was actually the last one that I bought; what sold (or perhaps re-sold) me on Linn gear was what they are doing with digital streaming.

David

David, that pretty much sums it up. I am not much of a fan of the Linn gear besides the table. The digital stuff is interesting, but there is better out there, albeit at a price, and my focus isn't on streaming. The speakers have never done anything for me ( although at the time the bricks were an interesting option...and one that i think in their active configuration were close to SOTA back in the day). The amps etc., to my ears have always been quite middle of the road. Even the tonearm is nothing that I would consider that special ( you can see the tonearm that i utilize on my deck...it really has a lot of things going for it over the Ekos models). The tonearm, IMO, is where Linn should spend their resources developing a major upgrade ( The new Karousel bearing is great, but IMO not the area that should have been focused upon first, that should have been the tonearm and its cable). 

Edited by Daveyf

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Except that the bearing is the most crucial part of the Linn LP12 and will have the biggest influence on the musical reproduction, as you have indicated in your comments on the Cirkus.  So of course it should have come first.  Then there is the fact that most of the people in this discussion, and I certainly include myself in that, feel that the Ekos SE/1 is one of the best arms made.  I would certainly put it well above the WTA (interesting as I admit it is, though fiddly) in ability to allow the cartridge to retrieve musical information.

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Posted (edited)

The Linn Ekos SE doesn’t hold candle to an arm like the Basis Superarm 9, the SAT, or the latest Triplanar. While my WTA’Black’ arm is not in their league either, it was a very close toss up between the two arms SQ wise( Linn and WTA) when we listened to both arms with the cable ‘AB’ i related earlier. Sorry, imo, the SE/1 just isn’t one of the best arms made. Not these days, and not by a long shot.

Edited by Daveyf

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@Dabeyf: it‘s good that the inferior works for you in your setup. But maybe you could imagine that other people - who also compared an EKOS with others arms - are very happy with their decision. It‘s also possible that in your comparison something went wrong (defect arm. wrong setup etc.). I hope your are not here in this forum to do EKOS bashing oder T-Cable bashing. 

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Posted (edited)

@Ben Webster  Did I say that the inferior works in my system?? What works for me is the best alternative ( and it certainly is NOT SOTA, but does allow for azimuth adjustment as an example, crucial with the MC that I currently use and like) to a mediocre arm that does work on the little fruit box!

To be more clear about my EKOS SE point, I believe that the arm works on the LP12...due to the compatibility with the suspension. I KNOW that the arm is easily bested by numerous others in several ways ( unfortunately, none work on the little fruit box due to the suspension issue). If you don't believe me, I suggest that you go and listen to some of the current top arms that are available. ( I mentioned just a few in my prior post).

The fact that you are happy with your decision is nice, but irrelevant to my point. I don't need to bash the tonearm or the T Kable, plenty of folks have the same opinion as I do, and choose to go in another direction. 

I do believe that Linn should update or upgrade their tonearm as a priority.

Edited by Daveyf

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36 minutes ago, Daveyf said:

To be more clear about my EKOS SE point, I believe that the arm works on the LP12...due to the compatibility with the suspension. I KNOW that the arm is easily bested by numerous others in several ways ( unfortunately, none work on the little fruit box due to the suspension issue). If you don't believe me, I suggest that you go and listen to some of the current top arms that are available. ( I mentioned just a few in my prior post).

How do you listen to a tone-arm?

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2 hours ago, Clavius said:

How do you listen to a tone-arm?

Usually on a turntable.9_9

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1 hour ago, Daveyf said:

Usually on a turntable.9_9

Actually, in the ideal world, both the turntable and the tone arm are completely silent. You don't listen to either; you listen to a record playing on a system, which, for present purposes, has a record deck as its source component.

David

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I have used Nordost Frey 2 in my whole system and even before I have tried Frey2's phono cable on my LP12. Apparently it sounds very different from any T Kable  (Silver, basic black, Mogami ) but after a month or two I decided to go back to the T Kable. 
Brands like Nordost, Siltech, Chord, even Ortofon have a very strong characteristics on their design. I don't mean they are not good but it is just a tea-or-coffee, depends on what sound you want. Personally I still prefer T-Kable on a Linn and that is probably the most beautiful combination. 

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So today I borrowed  the Silver T-Kable and was trying to install it. I can't believe my plinth 's tonearm cable exit hole is small and the Silver T-Kabel's width is larger than it. I can't put back my Trampolin 2 freely like the way I used to do with my original Majik T-Kable. 
It is quite surprising 

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Yes, the Trampolin will end up pressing on the arm cable at the exit.

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