bigrod

VOLUME CONTROL AND REALISTIC LISTENING LEVELS..

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, bigrod said:

If my cambridge streamer preamp gets its source from a router via wifi or ethernet surely it enters at the same level into whatever system and into whose ever house be it mine or yours..same with a line level cd..its digital encoded music....

Actually, it doesn't.

Digital signal encoding defines the shape of the waveform but the actual voltage amplitude is determined the DAC. Typically this is 2 V rms but it can vary.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Tune said:

Above a certain level the room interferes more and more with the reproduction, meaning that the best systems are disguised by sound bouncing of all surfaces and interfering with the direct sound.

I recently listened to my system at over 90db at 3m and it was horrible. That was nothing to do with the system but it was the room singing along in the mids. Without intrusive room treatments that will always be the case and, to be honest, who wants to live in a recording studio.

I'm not quite sure what you're referring to here? The relative amplitude of direct and reflected sounds won't change with volume. At very low bass frequencies you can get issues with things like doors and windows audibly vibrating at high volumes but it sounds like you have something else in mind?

Quote

As for DSP, I'm not aware of it being variable dependent on output level but maybe there is such a thing.

Correct. What 'room correction' DSP compensates for does not need to vary with volume level.

What I have seen discussed as being a good use of DSP is to have a volume-dependent correction to account for variations in hearing frequency response, like a more advanced 'loudness' function. There may be a device that implements this but I haven't seen one yet myself.

Edited by MartinC
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Early reflections that are not too loud, Martin, as we know, can actually sound quite pleasant and result in increased spaciousness IME.

As we increase level, their impact on image definition and general organisation of the mix becomes more noticeable. In most rooms, the early reflections become more obvious in their impact on perceived performance - again IME. 

Damping them with acoustic panels allows for higher levels of course but why do we want to listen at higher levels than mastering engineers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Tune said:

Early reflections that are not too loud, Martin, as we know, can actually sound quite pleasant and result in increased spaciousness IME.

As we increase level, their impact on image definition and general organisation of the mix becomes more noticeable. In most rooms, the early reflections become more obvious in their impact on perceived performance - again IME. 

I don't think it works like that, but rather I thought it is the relative amplitudes of direct and reflected sound that are important, and these won't change with volume level. I'm open to be corrected if you can post a link to a reliable reference that says otherwise though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Tune said:

Damping them with acoustic panels allows for higher levels of course but why do we want to listen at higher levels than mastering engineers.

Oh, and mastering engineers will overwhelmingly have worked in studios with acoustic treatment panels in place I'd have thought :).

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The cat almost killed my hi-fi. Literally just out in the kitchen and the cat must have either stood or lay on the remote control... on the volume. You've never seen me run so fast.

  • Haha 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Was putting  my hifi together last night, the amps have a sticker on the back stating they amplify by 30db. That doesn't sound a lot to me, is it right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Moderator

3dB represents a doubling of the power (or increasing the output voltage by .707 relative to the input voltage), so 6 dB is 4x, 9db 8x,... and so on. So 30 dB is quite a sizeable gain.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Bodgit said:

Was putting  my hifi together last night, the amps have a sticker on the back stating they amplify by 30db. That doesn't sound a lot to me, is it right?

30 dB gain is quite high I think actually. For comparison my power amp has a gain of 23 dB in 4 channel mode and 29 dB in stereo mode (how I use it) and I've used in line attenuators with it.

(23 dB is a voltage gain of 14.1, 29 dB is x28.2 and 30 dB is x31.6.)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Tony_J said:

3dB represents a doubling of the power (or increasing the output voltage by .707 relative to the input voltage), so 6 dB is 4x, 9db 8x,... and so on. So 30 dB is quite a sizeable gain.

I'm not quite with the bit in bold? 3 dB gain would mean the output voltage is 1.41 times the input voltage.

Edit: possibly you were thinking of 3 dB attenuation?

Edited by MartinC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Super Wammer
10 minutes ago, MartinC said:

I'm not quite with the bit in bold? 3 dB gain would mean the output voltage is 1.41 times the input voltage.

Edit: possibly you were thinking of 3 dB attenuation?

The amplifier spec should say the voltage required on the input terminals to achieve full volume/amplificatio
The preamp spec should tell you the rated output of the unit (in volts) .. 

In my experience I was never getting to even 10 o'clock with my pre to get full volume - I inserted 5db attenuators and it was not enough - so I finally settled on 10 db attenuators and now i never get much above 1 o'clock for the maximum volume I (and the neighbours) can stand.   It does allow me to set low listening levels from background low (virtually nothing) to low and normal listening levels - whereas before it was very quiet - or very loud and difficult, if not impossible, to set in between.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Moderator
17 minutes ago, MartinC said:

I'm not quite with the bit in bold? 3 dB gain would mean the output voltage is 1.41 times the input voltage.

Edit: possibly you were thinking of 3 dB attenuation?

Yes, expressed it bass ackwards. 

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Tony_J said:

3dB represents a doubling of the power (or increasing the output voltage by .707 relative to the input voltage), so 6 dB is 4x, 9db 8x,... and so on. So 30 dB is quite a sizeable gain.

Thanks for that reminder of what db actually means from a power perspective, forgot that from my B Eng Electronics days :$

My doubting was more aligned with a volume knob that has a range of far more than 30db

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Moderator
1 hour ago, Bodgit said:

My doubting was more aligned with a volume knob that has a range of far more than 30db

That's not necessarily inconsistent. The volume knob can reduce the input signal by more than 30dB, but then the amp can only boost it by 30dB. Nowt wrong with that.

Edited by Tony_J
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.