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Leccy Cars


dudywoxer
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So 15 years from now Internal Combustion engines hit the buffers in terms of new car sales

Do you think that we will have the generating capacity in place to meet the demand

Will we have a fit for purpose roadside and car park charging scheme in place? It will be a bit more complex than setting up a few petrol stations.

Will we have a fit for purpose charging system in place, as in the revenue collection system to replace the tax collected in petrol and diesel usage. I feel it will be a big brother type system, where a bill drops through your letter box charging you 20p or whatever per mile driven.

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Sounds intriguing. I work in the electricity industry, and consider the widespread roll out of battery powered vehicles to be the largest red herring of our time - battery material availability aside - I read a report saying that we require four times more cobalt to meet 2030 targets than the world has in it's entirety - there simply will not be the electricity infrastructure nor generation capacity by 2030 to meet projected targets. If every household in the average street expects to have a 100kW charging point set up, all expecting to charge in the evenings or overnight, there will need to be a bottom up wholescale rebuilding of the electricity distribution infrastructure from the 415V pillars upwards. This will cost £Billions, never mind the logistics and complexities of actually doing the work, resourcing, the materials, cabling, transformers, etc. We in essence have less than ten years to completely overhaul the UK's electricity infrastructure, which simply will not happen.

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Well the director of operations for the national grid has a slightly different view on the grids capacity to cope with EV demand.

The main worry for the national grid is moving toward electric home heating as this will mean a massive increase in demand. 

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Maybe I'm being cynical but I'd be more inclined to believe somebody at the coalface than a director, in my experience directors tend to say whatever 

A. The person they answer to wants to hear

B. Whatever BS they've been fed by the person down the chain from themselves who is also telling them what they want to hear. 

But I am probably just being cynical 

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15 hours ago, dudywoxer said:

So 15 years from now Internal Combustion engines hit the buffers in terms of new car sales

Do you think that we will have the generating capacity in place to meet the demand

Will we have a fit for purpose roadside and car park charging scheme in place? It will be a bit more complex than setting up a few petrol stations.

Will we have a fit for purpose charging system in place, as in the revenue collection system to replace the tax collected in petrol and diesel usage. I feel it will be a big brother type system, where a bill drops through your letter box charging you 20p or whatever per mile driven.

No.

No.

No.

Just another carriage on the biggest gravy train around.

Australia is currently turning huge chunks of it’s landscape into vast new coal mines just to keep up with Chinese demand for all those new coal-fired power stations. It is currently the world’s largest net exporter of coal. (By percentage.)

62 percent of India’s electrical energy comes from coal. They have vast reserves so that won’t change any time soon.

The USA, under Trump, has opted out of international environmental agreements.

Can the UK make up for all this by driving electric cars?

No.

Edited by chebby
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Hydrogen probably is the answer, but outside of Japan how much real world testing/research is going on. Given that we will need a large amount of tanks to store the hydrogen at service stations etc, do we have the manufacturing capacity to actually produce them . As I understand it hydrogen molecules are small enough to escape through plastic and rubber hoses, so some time will be needed to source and produce the kit. In the meantime all the major European car makers seem to be hell bent on leccy and batteries

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Something occurred to me last year when there was a serious crash on the M5 where 200 cars were sat on the motorway for 6 hours waiting to be turned around. 

If those cars were electric, and had it been winter necessitating the heaters to be running, there could have been 200 cars with flat batteries sat on the M5. This would require a fleet of tow trucks to remove them, however once recovered from the motorway they would still require several hours of charging which would require 200 charging points. 

Is this the future? 

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1 hour ago, dudywoxer said:

Hydrogen probably is the answer, but outside of Japan how much real world testing/research is going on. Given that we will need a large amount of tanks to store the hydrogen at service stations etc, do we have the manufacturing capacity to actually produce them . As I understand it hydrogen molecules are small enough to escape through plastic and rubber hoses, so some time will be needed to source and produce the kit. In the meantime all the major European car makers seem to be hell bent on leccy and batteries

Almost all the European car manufacturers have a developed hydrogen fuel cell powered car that is fully designed to production stage  but waiting for  the filling station infrastructure to be built , but governments are reluctant to progress it as it takes power away from their control .

Ironically the Chinese are very advanced with the use of hydrogen powered vehicles and trains but because the country is so vast nobody has noticed !

The hydrogen is actually made at filling stations , the amount depending on demand. They use renewable solar and wind on site to split water and also off peak surplus energy at times of low demand that would otherwise be wasted.

Shell have quite a few self contained hydrogen filling stations already in the UK .

It only takes a few days to install a hydrogen supply to an existing filling station .

More info here 

https://www.itm-power.com/h2-stations

https://www.itm-power.com/markets/hydrogen-fuel-stations-cars

Edited by Electro
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One other option that nobody mentions is any petrol powered car internal combustion engine can be converted to run on hydrogen in a very similar manner to an LPG conversion .

The kits with  remapped ECU's , carbon fibre tanks and hydrogen spark injectors are available for most cars  and they are 100 % pollution free after conversion and the engine life more that doubles after conversion, the engine oil never gets dirty and the cars run much cooler due to much less energy wastage in the form of heat .

This option seems to be totally ignored and neglected even by the most ardent greenists , :/ is that a word ? :D It could be a brand new industry for B word Britain ! 

Oh yes and all your house gas appliances can be converted to use hydrogen as well , just something to think about in future .:D

Edited by Electro
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3 hours ago, J Macquarrie said:

Well the director of operations for the national grid has a slightly different view on the grids capacity to cope with EV demand.

The main worry for the national grid is moving toward electric home heating as this will mean a massive increase in demand. 

Hydrogen can be used in existing home heating systems with a simple conversion similar to the one used to convert coal gas to natural gas but in reverse .

Nobody would ever die of carbon monoxide poisoning again in their home .

Coal gas had a high proportion of hydrogen in it .

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IMHO the only sensible use of plug in electric vehicles is for short range runabouts that are charged at home. Attempting to install a national charging network that allows EV to replace IC just ain't a practical proposition.

I have to agree with Electro here - hydrogen, for fuel cell use and/or IC use, makes far more sense. The possibility of running your own micro H generating station at home, using solar and/or wind, plus the relatively minor change in the existing filling station infrastructure, makes H the no brainer choice - except for the vested interests, of course.

Edited by Tony_J
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  • 2 months later...

Hydrogen cars might be moving a step closer. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-52328786

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7 hours ago, AntA said:

Hydrogen cars might be moving a step closer. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-52328786

This might be a development of the metal hydride storage that the late Stan Ovshinsky invented some years ago.

https://msu.edu/~lamtrung/ovonic_hydrogen_hybrid_handout_nov05.pdf

https://www.motherearthnews.com/renewable-energy/stan-ovshinsky-zmaz06onzraw

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