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kelly200269

I Never Knew Vinyl Could Be The Superior Medium...

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42 minutes ago, akamatsu said:

I just ordered it.

You will not be disappointed - the title track is stunning. 

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Vinyl has allways been my preferred medium , along with  Reel to reel 

Then others 

Keep the faith :D

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Posted (edited)
On ‎29‎/‎02‎/‎2020 at 18:51, kelly200269 said:

Vinyl has everything against it. It’s noisy, it’s speed fluctuates, it’s NOT pitch-perfect (FAR from it), and it’s damn inconvenient to boot. It’s PANTS!

BUT it still trounces (IMO!) a KDS/3 and a Chord TT2/HMS for pure musicality. The LP12 literally makes me cry. The other sources don’t.

Bizarre...

Me too.

It remains a weird thing...but as sonically faultless as some digital recording and playback appears to be ...It's never done it  for me at an emotional level.

Records do ...but less so modern ones from digital masters or transfers.

[ I still usually  find these Digitally mastered and often over compressed  LPs more rewarding than the equivalent CD's,  digital streams or downloads ....maybe because the digital resolution of those masters is better than that of the digital files available to stream or download ? ]

It's always hard to put this stuff into words... but there's a lot more going on than just the  "pleasant vinyl colourations"  that some folks lazily  point to when debating the pros and cons of LP.  

There is  maybe still  more musical  information in the bottom of a record groove than even the best digital recording technology can yet capture.

Edited by Smokestack
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99% of all albums recorded since the mid-eighties are digital recordings.

Just sayin’......

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10 minutes ago, Gussy said:

99% of all albums recorded since the mid-eighties are digital recordings.

Just sayin’......

Yes indeed but they still sound vastly superior when replayed on an analogue source I know this for fact as I have examples of both.

I've read many on here finding the same :whistle:

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Posted (edited)

To add to the comments, I have the second and third Oasis albums - a band known for going for a particular sound - on both CD and vinyl (first pressings both) and although the vinyl still sounds compressed, it sounds noticeably better than the CD version.

Mick

Edited by MickC
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Super Wammer
On 29/02/2020 at 18:51, kelly200269 said:

Vinyl has everything against it. It’s noisy, it’s speed fluctuates, it’s NOT pitch-perfect (FAR from it), and it’s damn inconvenient to boot. It’s PANTS!

BUT it still trounces (IMO!) a KDS/3 and a Chord TT2/HMS for pure musicality. The LP12 literally makes me cry. The other sources don’t.

Bizarre...

Try taking the Chord out of the chain?  Chord stuff, to these ears, tends to sound technically very good but not musically engaging.

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8 minutes ago, sunbeamgls said:

Try taking the Chord out of the chain?  Chord stuff, to these ears, tends to sound technically very good but not musically engaging.

Trouble is there's no unit of "musical engagement " ...we can't measure it , so many will tell us it doesn't exist.

Old analogue Luddites like me are always being told  that what we like is the euphonic distortion ...but I've never believed  its quite that simple .

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Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, Smokestack said:

Old analogue Luddites like me are always being told  that what we like is the euphonic distortion ...but I've never believed  its quite that simple .

I think it is that simple, but nothing wrong with that, especially when the ears / brain have been tuned over decades to expect it. Personally, I’m not too keen on 4K video, I prefer lower resolution Blu-ray. 4K feels too “immediate”, I need to feel there is something (blur, grain, whatever) between me and the actors or I’m constantly being drawn out of the performance.

Hyperthetical question, if you could take a “studio master” digital music file and vinyl-ise it, what would you prefer, the vinyl replay chain or the exact same file played through a Kilmax (or other appropriate) DS?

Edited by Music At Home

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2 hours ago, Music At Home said:

Hyperthetical question, if you could take a “studio master” digital music file and vinyl-ise it, what would you prefer, the vinyl replay chain or the exact same file played through a Kilmax (or other appropriate) DS?

I suspect that in those circumstances I'd  enjoy the digital playback as much as  the vinyl . The digital file would be  of the best possible quality and there could only be further information  losses in its transfer to record and playback of the same.

I do still wonder though, and despite  all it's additive distortions,  whether the best wholly analogue recording and playback captures something of music that digital cannot resolve .

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, sunbeamgls said:

Try taking the Chord out of the chain?  Chord stuff, to these ears, tends to sound technically very good but not musically engaging.

I would disagree. The Chord HMS/TT2 stack actually does better than my KDS/3 with RB files, and is very musical IMO. The KDS/3 does have the edge when playing 24-bit files, and has more ‘body’, probably due in great part to the better analogue output stage.

Although I would admit that my ‘cheap’ Majik system downstream from the sources probably has a bearing on this. My system is very ‘source heavy’. I can imagine that with better amps/speakers, the KDS/3 would show a clearer ‘pair of heels’ to the Chord stack.

The Chord’s do remain incredible VFM IMO.

Edited by kelly200269

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On 03/03/2020 at 08:19, Music At Home said:

I think it is that simple, but nothing wrong with that, especially when the ears / brain have been tuned over decades to expect it. Personally, I’m not too keen on 4K video, I prefer lower resolution Blu-ray. 4K feels too “immediate”, I need to feel there is something (blur, grain, whatever) between me and the actors or I’m constantly being drawn out of the performance.

Hyperthetical question, if you could take a “studio master” digital music file and vinyl-ise it, what would you prefer, the vinyl replay chain or the exact same file played through a Kilmax (or other appropriate) DS?

The vinyl playback.  I have done this type of comparison numerous times.  I originally believed that a "studio master' played through a KDs would outperform an LP made from it played on the Klimax LP12 and I told this to many customers.  But after I tried it several times I found the reverse was generally true (depending, of course, on the quality of mastering).  Why is this?  I have two theories but they are only that.  First I have found that every transition and every transfer a digital file goes through has an effect on the musical quality of the end product.  Certainly some digital diehards who believe in "perfect sound forever" or that there is truly "lossless" transmission will disagree with me.  But my experience, and that of many others, is that everything has an effect on musicality of digital files:  the Ethernet switch, the power supply that powers it, the ethernet cables, their length and direction, the motherboard in the NAS and in the streamer, the RAM modules on the motherboard, the SSD drives used, the SATA cables to the drives, the cases, the power supplies, how they are all connected, etc.  So with a digital file all these additional hurdles have to be navigated and the effects of the wrong choices can be decidedly unmusical.  When that digital master file is transferred to vinyl the digital transformations stop.  Yes, there are analog domain concerns, but I find them more benign than the distortions associated with digital files, which can cause distortions that don't occur in nature (such as pre-ringing and time domain errors).  In other words, my experience is that, contrary to theory, digital signals are actually MORE delicate than analog ones and lose more as they are transferred all over the place (how many places has a digital file been transferred that you listen to off Tidal or Qobuz before you listen to it, or even one you have downloaded).

Secondly, I have a hunch, although I've never seen anyone actually investigate this, that vinyl grooves may well be one of the best anti-aliasing filters out there.  You never know.

Whatever the reason, I almost always prefer the LP version of a recording originally mastered digitally and I find that truly well mastered ones can be quite enjoyable, as I recently proved to a number of people on the Lejonklou forum.  On the other hand, nothing beats the sheer musical engagement of an LP created from quality analog masters through an all analog chain, as the recent records from Gillian Welch amply demonstrate.

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Super Wammer

^ Many good reasons there Thomas, but its also impossible to discount that some of the elements of vinyl replay add something to the signal that some people enjoy - benign distortions.

Perhaps distortions in the digital chain are only ever bad, but some of those in the analogue chain are pleasant.

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