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Logic tells me that the Karousel mates especially well with the Keel, giving a particularly stable connection between subchassis and bearing; normally that would be my recommended upgrade path. But since the Keel at GBP 2.660,- isn't included in the promotion, I would go for the Ekos SE/1 with a free Karousel.

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I presume that this new bearing is compatible with an Aro KEEL without any machining required to the KEEL?

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1 minute ago, Dark Matter said:

I presume that this new bearing is compatible with an Aro KEEL without any machining required to the KEEL?

You presume correctly. If a Cirkus fits, so will the Karousel.

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3 hours ago, Tendaberry said:

Logic tells me that the Karousel mates especially well with the Keel, giving a particularly stable connection between subchassis and bearing; normally that would be my recommended upgrade path. But since the Keel at GBP 2.660,- isn't included in the promotion, I would go for the Ekos SE/1 with a free Karousel.

Thanks for this clarification. I agree, go for the promotion. The Kore is quite capable and usually doesn't show up as a weak link.

I think Linn should offer a discount on the Karousel with purchase of a Keel. The sub-chassis would have to be completely removed anyway. What an opportunity to upgrade.

Edited by akamatsu
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6 hours ago, Tendaberry said:

Logic tells me that the Karousel mates especially well with the Keel, giving a particularly stable connection between subchassis and bearing; normally that would be my recommended upgrade path. But since the Keel at GBP 2.660,- isn't included in the promotion, I would go for the Ekos SE/1 with a free Karousel.

I'm a little late to this party as I stay off forums on my weekends (Sunday and Monday).  But there is another thing that I didn't see mentioned besides the Keel not being enough to get the free Karousel.  That is the fact that you can only use an Akito 3 on a Keel if you are willing to give up your cueing device.  I don't find this a problem as I almost always hand cue records but most of my customers and some coworkers are not so confident with dropping the stylus in the groove manually.  So if you can't see having an arm without a cueing device I can certainly see this small exception to the hierarchy to get the Ekos SE/1 and the free Karousel.  Then you'll be all set to go to the Keel next time the upgrade bug bites.

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I found this and thought I'd share.

Keen to hear opinions and views on a listening test :upgrade:

Cymbiosis is pleased to announce our first two open days for anyone wishing to attend demonstrations of the newly announced Linn Karousel bearing upgrade for the Sondek LP12.

Due to the limited availability of the Linn Karousel at the moment, Peter will be demonstrating Linn Karousel on two LP12s, one at Klimax level with a Radikal and the other at Akurate level with a Lingo 4.

They will be demonstrated against identically set up decks with Cirkus bearings.
https://www.cymbiosis.com/2020/03/linn- ... open-days/

That'll  be nice.B|

Bit far for me though get in quick.:whistle:

Edited by Mr Kandid
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On 06/03/2020 at 10:14, CJ1045 said:

I heard a rumour that the inner platter has a shorter spindle for the new bearing. Does anyone know if that is definitively true or not true?

Managed to visit with Gordon Inch today. Paulssurround was in attendance and suggeted lunch, so the three of us plus one from the dealer shop spent a good couple of hours chatting over ramen.

I did ask about the spindle. It is exactly the same length as the cirkus spindle. Actually, the entire inner platter assembly is the same. They tried longer and shorter and found no difference.

Also confirmed that Karousel won't work with Valhalla. There would be interference between them.

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13 hours ago, akamatsu said:

Managed to visit with Gordon Inch today. Paulssurround was in attendance and suggeted lunch, so the three of us plus one from the dealer shop spent a good couple of hours chatting over ramen.

I did ask about the spindle. It is exactly the same length as the cirkus spindle. Actually, the entire inner platter assembly is the same. They tried longer and shorter and found no difference.

Also confirmed that Karousel won't work with Valhalla. There would be interference between them.

Akamatsu and I had an excellent visit with Gordon.

Gordon is extremely knowledgeable on all things Linn, and trains Linn dealers around the world on LP-12’s, Space Optimisation and set-up of Linn systems.

He is a very personable and approachable guy, with an extremely high level of enthusiasm for Linn and the products they make. He is very positive on Linn’s future and says the company is doing well. This upcoming year should see a number of new Linn products rolled out, so he says to stay tuned.

He assured me that Linn is highly committed to serving their audiophile base, while working to expand their lifestyle products such as the 3 series, 5 series and Selekt products to attract a younger audience that hopefully will become future audiophiles.

We discussed Exakt, electronic crossovers, time alignment, Katalyst, digital streaming, and their roll in future technological development, and compared that to the competition’s products.

When we returned to the shop, I received a personal tour of the Karousel and how it differs from the Circus. The precision machining and details involved to improve on the design were not technologically possible 5 years ago, but now the ability is available. Linn will continue to look for new  technologies and materials to advance their LP-12 components for better sound quality and  bring the listener closer to the music.

It was a fascinating afternoon and a few hours well spent. Gordon is a true ambassador for the Linn brand.

Akamatsu and I had no prior appointment to see Gordon, and I was not even sure we would be able to visit with him, but ended up with  a wonderful afternoon, with renewed feelings of good will about Linn and their future.

Edited by Paulssurround
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6 hours ago, Paulssurround said:

It was a fascinating afternoon and a few hours well spent. Gordon is a true ambassador for the Linn brand.

Akamatsu and I had no prior appointment to see Gordon, and I was not even sure we would be able to visit with him, but ended up with  a wonderful afternoon, with renewed feelings of good will about Linn and their future

Thanks for the report, Paul. Getting the facts about the spindle/ inner platter is helpful, and, subject to correction, the information that Karousel is not compatible with Valhalla is new news. That starts to make things interesting, not to say tricky, for owners of pre-Cirkus decks with Valhalla; how does one upgrade without having to do a lot of expensive things at once? If you add up the cost of  Karousel and a Majik PSU and subchassis, plus any fitting and servicing charge your dealer may make, that's taking you a fair way towards the cost of a whole new Majik level deck. Even fitting just a second hand Cirkus will IIRC require the replacement of the subchassis.

As you have reported less than satisfactory demonstrations by and contacts with Linn in the past, it is good to know that your meeting with Gordon has restored your confidence somewhat. The more I think about it, the more I believe that in these probably straitened times, Linn is right to go back to its roots and appeal to its widest customer base, which, with Karousel, is just what they are doing.

David 

Edited by DavidHB
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7 hours ago, Paulssurround said:

When we returned to the shop, I received a personal tour of the Carousel and how it differs from the Circus.

Hi Paul,

many thanks for report. But the most important thing: how would you describe the differences between Karousel and Cirkus?

Kind regards

Ben

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FYI

The Valhalla power supply is MUCH better than Majik so that would be a downgrade. The Majik power supply feeds mains directly to the motor. No DC coversion/quartz locked sine wave synthesis of the Valhalla.

Lingo is the first upgrade option.

Certainly this is going to dramatically reduce the takeup of the new bearing. Virtually all second hand decks we see advertised / pass through our business have Valahalla power supplies

CJ

Edited by CJ1045
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3 minutes ago, CJ1045 said:

FYI

The Valhalla power supply is MUCH better than Majik so that would be a downgrade. The Majik power supply feeds mains directly to the motor. No DC coversion/quartz locked sine wave synthesis of the Valhalla.

Lingo is the first upgrade option.

Certainly this is going to dramatically reduce the takeup of the new bearing. Virtually all second hand decks we see advertised / pass through our business have Valahalla power supplies

CJ

Thanks, CJ. Being, so to speak, of the Lingo 4 generation, I had not realised that the difference was so great. Can you see, as I suggested, a market for surplus (but usable) Cirkus bearings on Valhalla equipped decks? The issue then, I suppose, would be the supply and cost of the subchassis.

David

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David,

Think you misunderstand the issue with Valhalla

The Valhalla is a power supply board that attaches to the underside of the standard cross brace in any LP12. The sub-chassis is above the crossbrace

The Valhalla board and the cross brace have a large hole in the middle of them through which the bottom end of the main bearing passes as it sticks out from the underside of the sub-chassis.

Although not explicitly stated it sounds like the hole in the middle of the Valhalla circuit board is too large for the bottom of the Karousel bearing to fit through with sufficient clearance. No mention has been made of the Hercules but will probably have the same issue but they are in much smaller numbers.

I would say that roughly 9 in 10 LP12s then would need an alternate power supply to fit the new bearing. Not going to be the massive seller we, perhaps, at first thought.

Still, on the bright side there will be much less Cirkus bearings on the second hand market.

CJ

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10 minutes ago, CJ1045 said:

Think you misunderstand the issue with Valhalla

No, your description was pretty much what I was expecting. The new information for me is (1) the superiority of the Valhalla over the current Majik PSU and (2) the prevalence of the Valhalla in the second hand market.

15 minutes ago, CJ1045 said:

... it sounds like the hole in the middle of the Valhalla circuit board is too large for the bottom of the Karousel bearing to fit through with sufficient clearance.

I don't quite get this. Do you actually mean that the hole is too small?

David

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Yep, too small, sorry

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