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6 hours ago, Daveyf said:

Speaking of aspiring to a higher level, has anyone traded in their Kandid and replaced it with the likes of an Etna Lambda or an Atlas Lambda?

... and then I looked at the price. £7.5K for a consumable? Eek! The Kandid at less than half that is bad enough ...

It's interesting to reflect that the Karousel is about 10% of the price of the Etna and will last many times as long.

David

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8 hours ago, DavidHB said:

... and then I looked at the price. £7.5K for a consumable? Eek! The Kandid at less than half that is bad enough ...

It's interesting to reflect that the Karousel is about 10% of the price of the Etna and will last many times as long.

David

You do realize that we are talking about a bearing vs. a cartridge here, right? 

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3 hours ago, Daveyf said:

You do realize that we are talking about a bearing vs. a cartridge here, right? 

Of course. But the cost of an upgrade is still the cost of an upgrade ...

David

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The cost of an upgrade and the value of an upgrade are not necessarily connected. To some folks, the cost of the Etna Lambda is pocket change, to others it is simply out of reach, same goes for the Karousel bearing. 

I would be willing to bet that if you go out and tell most non-audiophiles that you just spent 750 +pounds on a bearing for your turntable, they would consider you as a wealthy nut! 

OTOH, if you talk to most audiophiles and tell them that you just spent 750 pounds on your system for a very worthy upgrade, they would think you got a deal!! Crazy hobby!!!

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Chris of Hidden Systems hosted a "by invitation" discussion session on Zoom earlier this evening. The focus of the discussion was the LP12 in general and Karousel in particular. Gordon Inch of Linn joined us for this session.  Gordon provided some interesting Karousel facts, none of which I had heard before. Here are a few.
1. Development of the Karousel took about a year.
2. The composite bearing liner is machined to a tolerance of 8 microns; the carbon steel spindle is machined to an even finer tolerance.
3. The bearing end cap, as well as the locknut, is torqued to 3.5 N-m. The purpose of making the end cap removable was to allow inspection of the thrust pad without dismantling the LP12.
4. The 3.5 N-m value reflects the fact that, because the screw threads on the bearing housing, locknut and end cap are so fine, the torque is applied over a much larger surface area than might initially seem to be the case.
5. Loctite or similar should not be used on the Karousel screw threads. When Linn tried it, it resulted in a reduction in sound quality.
I hope that these are of interest.
David

Always a pleasure David and made a good sale yesterday from that Zoom event. I have some in store events soon that will be worth attending for those not yet Karousel”ised,, Radikal’ised, Keel’ised as the saying goes.


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10 hours ago, Daveyf said:

The cost of an upgrade and the value of an upgrade are not necessarily connected.

Yes, that was my point exactly.

10 hours ago, Daveyf said:

I would be willing to bet that if you go out and tell most non-audiophiles that you just spent 750 +pounds on a bearing for your turntable, they would consider you as a wealthy nut!  ... OTOH, if you talk to most audiophiles and tell them that you just spent 750 pounds on your system for a very worthy upgrade, they would think you got a deal!! Crazy hobby!!!

Quite. Though those of my friends who have crazy hobbies of their own (boats, vintage cars etc.) tend to be more understanding, along the lines of, "If that's your thing ..."

David

Edited by DavidHB

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Well I took the Linn Summer Offer plunge and upgraded my KDS to the latest Katalyst board and earned myself a free Karousel. :)

So went down to Hidden Systems on Tuesday to pick up my KDS and get my Karousel fitted. 

It was just me Chris so we had a bit of a before-and-after chill session with Miles Davis' and 'Kind Of Blue' as our reference vinyl. After Chris did his majiK ;) I was very surprised by the upgrade. Before, well it sounded excellent anyway but after it was an even cleaner sound and better soundstage. Lovely. 

I'm now a kid-in-a-sweet-shop looking forward to the weekend when I can sit back with my LP12 and KDS.... :) where to start? Why not with MFSLs release of 'Kind Of Blue'

310563448_MFSL-KindOfBlue(2).thumb.jpg.3b3ec156f68d87fb7e2feb58ae4a78c1.jpg

Thanks Chris.

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Well I took the Linn Summer Offer plunge and upgraded my KDS to the latest Katalyst board and earned myself a free Karousel.
So went down to Hidden Systems on Tuesday to pick up my KDS and get my Karousel fitted. 
It was just me Chris so we had a bit of a before-and-after chill session with Miles Davis' and 'Kind Of Blue' as our reference vinyl. After Chris did his majiK  I was very surprised by the upgrade. Before, well it sounded excellent anyway but after it was an even cleaner sound and better soundstage. Lovely. 
I'm now a kid-in-a-sweet-shop looking forward to the weekend when I can sit back with my LP12 and KDS....  where to start? Why not with MFSLs release of 'Kind Of Blue'
310563448_MFSL-KindOfBlue(2).thumb.jpg.3b3ec156f68d87fb7e2feb58ae4a78c1.jpg
Thanks Chris.

Thank you for your kind words


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My LP12 was bought in 1992 with an original Ekos arm and Cirkus bearing. I am afraid to confess, I have never even had it serviced in the meantime! Things started to go awry about 5 years ago when the cartridge was clearly on its last legs - replace with the spectacularly good value AT-OC9ML/II. Then three years ago the Valhalla power supply died, which I replaced myself with a third party Hercules power supply which is a drop-in replacement for the Valhalla.  About two years ago while recording from the LP12 to FLAC for streaming purposes I became aware of some bearing noise.  Having removed and replaced the inner platter a couple of times for transportation over the years, I suspected there was less lubricant in the bearing than there should have been. I topped up the oil and after about a month of regular use the bearing noise had gone.  However I have been worried since that there may have been some permanent damage.

When I read about the Karousel I thought this is finally the moment, after 28 years, to give the old girl a bit of love and affection.  So when lock-down lifted and my local dealer opened again I ordered the bearing and, after some discussion and pondering, also went for a new Kore subchassis. Unfortunately, the size of the new bearing means it is incompatible with either the Valhalla or the Hercules. I could not afford a Lingo 4 as well as the other two upgrades so was in a bit of bind. Luckily I found out there is an external box available for the Hercules which meant I could go ahead.

So I delivered my LP12 to Infidelity in Kingston last Saturday to do the Karousel, Kore, a full service and reinstall the Hercules in it's external box.  Picked it up this lunchtime.

Wow guys, just wow!  Obviously impossible to pin down exactly what made the difference, but the combination of new springs, grommets, subchassis and bearing - and its first proper set up in 28 years was just astonishing.

A dramatic difference. My 60yo hearing aint what it was, and audio memory is a fickle thing, but when you sit down and trawl through your record collection for six hours straight, breaking only for cups of tea and skipping supper, you know that something has changed!

In one word? "Clarity"  Most obvious in classical music.  Instruments just sound more real, in their own space and it all hangs together so well. The orchestra is bigger, there is space between notes and the players. Percussion and plucked strings (harp particularly) stand out like they should. Everything has benefited, jazz, rock, electronic - you name it. Bass is more controlled and tuneful, and the dynamics are awesome.

So, all up it cost nearly 2 grand, but I now have a turntable that will last another 30 years, even though I probably won't!  Linn and Infidelity have one chuffed punter, thanks gents.  By the way, I will get it serviced again before I die...

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@TheLastMan,

Wonderful story! I nominate you for most profound sound quality improvement due to Karousel upgrade.

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My experience of the karousel was that for the first 50/60 hours, the music appeared hyper-detailed but disjointed (similar to the black T-Kable) and with a muddy bass.

After those period, all became very musical ... a truly joy to listen to.

M.

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On 12/09/2020 at 22:13, TheLastMan said:

By the way, I will get it serviced again before I die..

When you do, try to find the cash to shell out for a Lingo 4; you ought to book the service before the Lingo 4 turns into the Lingo 5 :) . I think you'd be surprised at just how much of an upgrade the Lingo is. In fact, Linn would advise you to upgrade to the Lingo ahead of the Kore, but I think your choice was sound, given that you were fitting the Karousel at the same time.

Great story, by the way. I reflect that, just when you were buying your LP12, I was buying my Basik, which I kept for over 25 years. The Basik was a good deal for me (and all that the maintenance of domestic harmony would allow at the time), but you got (and in many ways still have) the better deal overall.

David

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I received my LP12 back from my fettler fitted with the Karousel bearing two days ago. i can only say this...my wife took a listen and she never NEVER says anything good about my system....this time she said this: " an unbelievable sound, just incredible" ...and from my wife that says it all!!! 

To say i am gobsmacked about the Karousel is a bit of an understatement...superb upgrade. 

Edited by Daveyf
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On 12/09/2020 at 22:13, TheLastMan said:

My LP12 was bought in 1992 with an original Ekos arm and Cirkus bearing. I am afraid to confess, I have never even had it serviced in the meantime! Things started to go awry about 5 years ago when the cartridge was clearly on its last legs - replace with the spectacularly good value AT-OC9ML/II. Then three years ago the Valhalla power supply died, which I replaced myself with a third party Hercules power supply which is a drop-in replacement for the Valhalla.  About two years ago while recording from the LP12 to FLAC for streaming purposes I became aware of some bearing noise.  Having removed and replaced the inner platter a couple of times for transportation over the years, I suspected there was less lubricant in the bearing than there should have been. I topped up the oil and after about a month of regular use the bearing noise had gone.  However I have been worried since that there may have been some permanent damage.

When I read about the Karousel I thought this is finally the moment, after 28 years, to give the old girl a bit of love and affection.  So when lock-down lifted and my local dealer opened again I ordered the bearing and, after some discussion and pondering, also went for a new Kore subchassis. Unfortunately, the size of the new bearing means it is incompatible with either the Valhalla or the Hercules. I could not afford a Lingo 4 as well as the other two upgrades so was in a bit of bind. Luckily I found out there is an external box available for the Hercules which meant I could go ahead.

So I delivered my LP12 to Infidelity in Kingston last Saturday to do the Karousel, Kore, a full service and reinstall the Hercules in it's external box.  Picked it up this lunchtime.

Wow guys, just wow!  Obviously impossible to pin down exactly what made the difference, but the combination of new springs, grommets, subchassis and bearing - and its first proper set up in 28 years was just astonishing.

A dramatic difference. My 60yo hearing aint what it was, and audio memory is a fickle thing, but when you sit down and trawl through your record collection for six hours straight, breaking only for cups of tea and skipping supper, you know that something has changed!

In one word? "Clarity"  Most obvious in classical music.  Instruments just sound more real, in their own space and it all hangs together so well. The orchestra is bigger, there is space between notes and the players. Percussion and plucked strings (harp particularly) stand out like they should. Everything has benefited, jazz, rock, electronic - you name it. Bass is more controlled and tuneful, and the dynamics are awesome.

So, all up it cost nearly 2 grand, but I now have a turntable that will last another 30 years, even though I probably won't!  Linn and Infidelity have one chuffed punter, thanks gents.  By the way, I will get it serviced again before I die...

Prior to Christmas last year, I had a very similar deck to you - Valhalla/Cirkus/Ekos/Adikt. Like you, I hadn't really had much done to it in ten years, since the Cirkus upgrade in 2009.

Like yourself, I'm amazed at the improvement recent upgrades have made, although I missed-out on my free Karousel. I'll maybe get there in another ten-years! xD

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On 17/09/2020 at 07:18, Daveyf said:

To say i am gobsmacked about the Karousel is a bit of an understatement...superb upgrade. 

It's interesting to reflect how far back into their engineering roots Linn have gone with the Karousel. In 1973, when Linn was first  marketing the LP12 (no arm then, of course, and the "power supply" was just a chocolate block connector for the mains wiring), a deeply sceptical Hi-Fi trade was unimpressed with the idea that the bearing, provided it produced no very audible rumble, wow and flutter, could have any (ho-hum) bearing on the sound quality.. Turntables just went round and  round, didn't they? To which Ivor's often quoted answer was that speakers only go in and out ...

David

Edited by DavidHB
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