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Wow, you guys in the UK don't know how good you've got it.  The number of competent LP12 dealers/service guys in the USA can probably be counted on one hand (maybe half a hand).   So for 95% of us here, a dealer install (included in the price or even an additional charge) is just not an option.  I've had an LP12 for almost 40 years and have done most of the work on it myself.  I think I've done a pretty god job but, of course, I have nothing to compare it with.

Anyway, next job is a complete disassembly and installation of a new subchassis.  Wish me luck!

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1 hour ago, sktn77a said:

Wow, you guys in the UK don't know how good you've got it.  The number of competent LP12 dealers/service guys in the USA can probably be counted on one hand (maybe half a hand).   So for 95% of us here, a dealer install (included in the price or even an additional charge) is just not an option.  I've had an LP12 for almost 40 years and have done most of the work on it myself.  I think I've done a pretty god job but, of course, I have nothing to compare it with.

Anyway, next job is a complete disassembly and installation of a new subchassis.  Wish me luck!

If there is any way that you could install a Karousel once the deck is torn down......

and good luck.

P.S. I have three Linn dealers near me, two in Vancouver, and one in Seattle. All well within a day trip. But right now I can't get to any of them due to border closure.

Edited by akamatsu

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3 hours ago, sktn77a said:

Wow, you guys in the UK don't know how good you've got it.  The number of competent LP12 dealers/service guys in the USA can probably be counted on one hand (maybe half a hand).   So for 95% of us here, a dealer install (included in the price or even an additional charge) is just not an option.  I've had an LP12 for almost 40 years and have done most of the work on it myself.  I think I've done a pretty god job but, of course, I have nothing to compare it with.

Anyway, next job is a complete disassembly and installation of a new subchassis.  Wish me luck!

This is perhaps the biggest issue for Linn LP12 ownership in the US. I have a very good 'fettler' near me, he was the main guy for decades for the Linn shop in the area. They sold a lot of LP12's, that is until the business went south about a decade ago and they had to close. My friend has been an independent for several years now, Linn allows him to service the LP12 ( as they know of his skill set!) , BUT they will NOT allow him to sell any of the parts or the upgrades!! This makes some sense from Linn's perspective, as they believe that my friend should carry some stock and should not cross contaminate any of their other LP12 dealers. While this makes sense coming from Glasgow, it doesn't take into consideration the size and scope of the USA!!! In my area, the next Linn authorized 'fettler' ( who happens to be in his 80's) is about 200 miles north of me, the next one -1000 miles north! Now, in the UK, one can get in their car and drive to how many good 'fettler's' in the space of what...an hour plus??? Here in the US..different story. So, while Linn like to 'protect' their so-called dealer network ( not really a network in the US, but??) which I understand, they are seemingly not that cognizant of the geography, or the scope of the potential market, all IMHO. 

Edited by Daveyf
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Also here in Italy there are few skilled dealers in the north and just one in the south.

But the main issue is that they are not young ...

M.

Edited by Matteo

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3 hours ago, Daveyf said:

Now, in the UK, one can get in their car and drive to how many good 'fettler's' in the space of what...an hour plus??? Here in the US..different story.

Here in the UK, we have understood (and regretted) this difference for many years. I firmly believe that the Achilles heel of the LP12 is that there are core aspects of its design that are quite old-fashioned, and that 'craft' skills will always be required to build and maintain it.

Not that in the UK we necessarily make best use of our relative good fortune. We are often too ready to go to the person we know rather than give some more local dealer a chance and build a relationship that might be more advantageous in the long run. You have to give credit to Peter Swain and the Cymbiosis team (and, from what I understand, he's a nice guy too), but I do think that some of his clientele would do themselves and fellow Linn users a favour by giving their custom to more local suppliers, to spread the knowledge around.

I admit that I am not entirely blameless in this regard. As I live on an island, a ferry trip to the mainland is essential for me to visit any dealer. But there are a couple who are quicker and easier to reach than, and several more who are as easy to reach as, my regular dealer, Hidden Systems in Windsor. Chris is not as fully set up as Peter Swain - who else could afford the time and cost of having so many LP12s on demo? - but he still customarily has a number of decks to demonstrate. He is also prepared to travel to my home, which is a big plius when transporting the LP12 is something of a faff. So I bypass all the dealers I don't know, though more likely than not they are perfectly competent, to deal with the person who built my LP12 in the first place. The one saving grace of this is that Chris is probably less well known as an LP12 fettler than a couple of the other dealers that are 'local' to me, so I have been following my own precept to that extent.

Oh, yes, and the LP12 sounds wonderful. Why wouldn't I continue to give my business to the guy who built it?

David

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4 hours ago, DavidHB said:

 Oh, yes, and the LP12 sounds wonderful. Why wouldn't I continue to give my business to the guy who built it?

David

David brings up many valid points here.
Yes I do think that the setting up of the LP12 in its more primitive guises is very much a touch and feel skill that is learned and required.
I do think that many of the more recent incarnations of upgrade are a bit more fettler friendly than they used to be but the skill learned previously is the difference we aspire to in our setup.
After all the price of such equipment is not for the unenthusiastic or non appreciative.
I bought my LP12 in 1987 and I live in Scotland we were rather spoiled in the early days with some great dealers at the time but as time goes by and tastes and convenience requirements change I've found a big change in the service provided as the majority of such " audiophile " systems have evolved into a box swap plug and play technology this may be fine for some but what about the others that have invested heavily over the years in the Vinyl format and still want to enjoy their collections many of the titles I have are not available in any other format so I want to enjoy as best as I can.
It might be the case and I hope that it is that a new generation of dealers " fettlers " might come through but it is hard work and time consuming in comparison to the alternative.
I'm very fortunate to have a dealer "Peter Swain Cymbiosis" that will travel to me for my fettling requirements and it seems to me in this day and age it is these dealers that travel are the ones to do well gone are the days of sitting back complacently like a monopoly filter feeding
I've been very enthused by some of the youngsters I find in the record store buying LPs but then they tell me they collect the records but listen to " streams " for convenience.
If only they new what they are missing we must tell them.:minikev:

Edited by Mr Kandid
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4 hours ago, DavidHB said:

Here in the UK, we have understood (and regretted) this difference for many years. I firmly believe that the Achilles heel of the LP12 is that there are core aspects of its design that are quite old-fashioned, and that 'craft' skills will always be required to build and maintain it.

Not that in the UK we necessarily make best use of our relative good fortune. We are often too ready to go to the person we know rather than give some more local dealer a chance and build a relationship that might be more advantageous in the long run. You have to give credit to Peter Swain and the Cymbiosis team (and, from what I understand, he's a nice guy too), but I do think that some of his clientele would do themselves and fellow Linn users a favour by giving their custom to more local suppliers, to spread the knowledge around.

I admit that I am not entirely blameless in this regard. As I live on an island, a ferry trip to the mainland is essential for me to visit any dealer. But there are a couple who are quicker and easier to reach than, and several more who are as easy to reach as, my regular dealer, Hidden Systems in Windsor. Chris is not as fully set up as Peter Swain - who else could afford the time and cost of having so many LP12s on demo? - but he still customarily has a number of decks to demonstrate. He is also prepared to travel to my home, which is a big plius when transporting the LP12 is something of a faff. So I bypass all the dealers I don't know, though more likely than not they are perfectly competent, to deal with the person who built my LP12 in the first place. The one saving grace of this is that Chris is probably less well known as an LP12 fettler than a couple of the other dealers that are 'local' to me, so I have been following my own precept to that extent.

Oh, yes, and the LP12 sounds wonderful. Why wouldn't I continue to give my business to the guy who built it?

David

David,

Chris is a good guy and it is refreshing there is such a nice guy doing a good job in the south of England. We talk quite regularly, as I do with many good Linn retailers worldwide. There is always space for a good Linn retailer. I for one cannot help everyone of course, so you are right to point out one of the good guys who cares for and about his clients. He has a very good range of LP12s, showing his commitment to the cause. Ok, so he doesn't have the 22 demo LP12s I have here, but there again he hasn't been setting them up as long as me. 40 years this autumn...... Give him time though :)

KR

Peter

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Thank you DavidHB and Peter Swain for your kind words.

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My thanks to Peter as well.

He may not recall this, but some years ago, on the old Linn forum, I posted a picture of my system as it then was (with my Basik TT). Peter came back with the remark that what would really improve the look of the system would be an LP12. I know that I disagreed, probably saying that I could not conceivably spend that kind of money on a secondary source (which is what vinyl was for me at the time, and had been for some years - so much for 'source first'!).

Denials notwithstanding, the seed was planted, and in due time I found myself at Chris's shop, listening to a selection of LP12s, and comparing them with my Basik. My Wigwam info says where that process ended up ... :) 

David

Edited by DavidHB
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15 hours ago, DavidHB said:

Here in the UK, we have understood (and regretted) this difference for many years. I firmly believe that the Achilles heel of the LP12 is that there are core aspects of its design that are quite old-fashioned, and that 'craft' skills will always be required to build and maintain it.

Not that in the UK we necessarily make best use of our relative good fortune. We are often too ready to go to the person we know rather than give some more local dealer a chance and build a relationship that might be more advantageous in the long run. You have to give credit to Peter Swain and the Cymbiosis team (and, from what I understand, he's a nice guy too), but I do think that some of his clientele would do themselves and fellow Linn users a favour by giving their custom to more local suppliers, to spread the knowledge around.

I admit that I am not entirely blameless in this regard. As I live on an island, a ferry trip to the mainland is essential for me to visit any dealer. But there are a couple who are quicker and easier to reach than, and several more who are as easy to reach as, my regular dealer, Hidden Systems in Windsor. Chris is not as fully set up as Peter Swain - who else could afford the time and cost of having so many LP12s on demo? - but he still customarily has a number of decks to demonstrate. He is also prepared to travel to my home, which is a big plius when transporting the LP12 is something of a faff. So I bypass all the dealers I don't know, though more likely than not they are perfectly competent, to deal with the person who built my LP12 in the first place. The one saving grace of this is that Chris is probably less well known as an LP12 fettler than a couple of the other dealers that are 'local' to me, so I have been following my own precept to that extent.

Oh, yes, and the LP12 sounds wonderful. Why wouldn't I continue to give my business to the guy who built it?

David

I appreciate your point. I would certainly agree that IF the guy who originally sold and built your LP12 is still in business, then giving your Linn business to him makes good sense..and is the right thing to do. In my case, the guy who sold me my Linn is long gone, as are all of the Linn LP12 dealers in the near vicinity. The number of great 'fettler's' in the US is also severely on the wane. There are simply too many other shops that are selling Mobile Fidelity decks, Technics decks and the like for Linn to have a chance...since their deck requires the one thing that these dealers hate...SET UP! 

So, it is my belief that while the LP12 certainly sounds far far superior to these other decks, the dealers don't care about that, they care about moving product..and as easily and profitably as they can. 

Which, on the face of it, doesn't really hold well for the Linn turntable in the US. Question is whether or not a) Linn can do anything about that, and/or b) care to even do so?

Edited by Daveyf

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There is no question that things are sparse in the US.  It is also true that the majority of dealers would rather sell you something where they can just hand you a box.  But I don't think this is just a US thing.  I think there are lots of places where people would prefer to do the least work for the most money, rather than really caring about craftsmanship, although it may be more prevalent here.  But you can see the pandering to this market even from traditional Hi-Fi companies.  Rega designed the Planar 1 and 2 for customer setup to appeal to a wider market of both customers and dealers.  The cartridges are pre-mounted and you just put the counterweight on and slam it all the way forward, and the anti-skate is fixed.  Will this give you the best perfromance attainable form these tables?  Certainly not.  But the mail order dealer or record store that sells them don't care as long as it works when you set it up that way and as long as their customers don't know any better.  Cambridge took it even farther with their turntable making it a "plug and play" through bluetooth into whatever you want or through the built in, non by-passable MC phono stage.  Like the Regas it comes with cartridge pre-mounted and claims easy setup. Also like Regas it uses a Rega arm.  But in the days of throw away almost everything what can you expect.

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51 minutes ago, ThomasOK said:

But in the days of throw away almost everything what can you expect.

I plan on hitting the landfill before my LP12. :D

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This night I have received my ordered Karousel .:x  Everything are nice inside especially the bearing itself. It is a lot heavier, and more solid-feelings than I expected, I can't wait to change my cirkus to this one and see the effect.  

But the only problem is I still have not received my Wiha torque wrench :|.  The post office says its on its way but I haven't heard of it since  mid-October....

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