Boysey

Any Tube Guru's out there?

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Any advice gratefully received.

I'm looking for the best tube combination for my Pathos InPower Mono's

Front end signal valves ECC83 (V1 position) ECC82 (V2 position)

Any thoughts of a best combination?

Tried a few..... Mullards / Phillips Jan / Genlex Gold Lions / and many others!

Is there a a "Best" combination.... Or Am I pissing into the wind?

Lovely amps... Just looking for perfection...... Perhaps not possible!!!

Any thoughts??? Much appreciated!

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Ecc 83 .Mullard m8137 or Telefunken ecc83.But depends on amp ,ears.Found these the best in my Croft .Not sure on Ecc 82 ,but maybe the same.

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No 'best' any more than there's a 'best' flavour for food.

Many have success with Telefunkens and Mullards, you might or might not, but you probably won't lose money when it comes to resale. Others love new Chinese stuff on which you probably will lose money, but they are typically significantly cheaper.

Try and see is the only advice I can give. If someone else has your amp they can add more specific advice, but what is 'best' in one circuit may be quite indifferent in another so my experiences won't help.

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Yes I do understand... "No particular best"

Finding Ecc82 Mullards is quite easy. Ecc83  Mullards is a different matter (let alone Cost).

I have Phillips Jan Ecc83 which are nice but I'm not sure... It's worth trying the Mullard.... I hope so. 

I'm not sure I'm prepared to pay £200 + for a pair of Mullard Ecc83 just to try.

Thanks for your advice though.

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12 minutes ago, Jazid said:

No 'best' any more than there's a 'best' flavour for food.

Many have success with Telefunkens and Mullards, you might or might not, but you probably won't lose money when it comes to resale. Others love new Chinese stuff on which you probably will lose money, but they are typically significantly cheaper.

Try and see is the only advice I can give. If someone else has your amp they can add more specific advice, but what is 'best' in one circuit may be quite indifferent in another so my experiences won't help.

What he says.

The circuit you use a valve in has far greater effect than the specific 'flavour' of a valve. There is absolutely no doubt that there are differences, but these can be emphasised, reduced or can differ depending on what the valve is doing in a circuit, the other components, and the operating point the designer has chosen. If you run a 12AX7 as a phase splitter at low plate current and in the linear portion of its operating range, you could use just about any 12AX7 and you'd need very golden ears to hear any difference.

Anything else is a generalisation. Overall, Telefunken and Siemens (provided they are genuine, test well and aren't microphonic) will be as good as anything and better than most. Usually. For the 'how can they do it at the price' range, JJ Gold Pin modern production ECC803S. YMMV and I have no doubt many valves are good in some setups. There's a lot of old toot around though. Just because a valve is old doesn't mean it's good. Don't forget a lot were produced in their thousands for TVs and radios in the 50s and 60s and a lot were pretty average. With most decent old small signal valves, (provided...) you should get your money back anyway. Usual rules apply. Buy carefully, avoid anything that looks too cheap, avoid anything with rubbish sales comments (not tested but worked fine last time...) and avoid everything that says NOS, but obviously isn't. New Old Stock means exactly that. Unused, original box, etc. Actually, you're just as well off with used old stock that's tested, if not better off. Plenty of unused old valves turn out microphonic or down on specs.

Last, don't waste money. It'll make small differences. Like cables, you don't want to be trying to justify the money you spent by having to tell people it made a night and day difference, when it didn't really.

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What an absolute sensible post. 

You have become my hero!  

Indeed, too late now, but some hundreds of pounds spent on wasted valves.... We live and learn.

Thank you... The most informed post of my membership.👍👍

Pete

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If they're old and test OK, then it's not wasted because you're highly likely to get your money back. Keep them long enough and you're very likely to make a profit, so I wouldn't worry. Any 12AX7 or 12AU7 is a reasonably safe bet, because they're used in so many different things.

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The Rab knows his stuff. Many amps are not worth the effort of nos tubes, they are often ‘voiced’ to sound best\ok with modern products, or their affect on sound is no more than ornamental. I think pathos are not one I’ve tried but their circuit is unusual, not sure if it responds to nos kit.

 At top end all usual comments about German tubes holds true, valvo are a good bet, unfashionable but good value. Personally in last three amps I ended up with 2 each seimens and amperex, I like the blend of poppy amperex and soulful seimens . Prob most expensive as well. Order of use depends on what I’ve got, at moment its seimens longplates and bugle boys. A good value option are rca tubes , the 82 clear tops are Musical bargains, and 83 black plates are good value. Both fraction of cost of euro produce.

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Super Wammer

Unlike others on this thread my need for Valves is very narrow . My Croft OTL which I will be collecting at The Wam Show next week uses PL509/PL519 . I have manged to pick up a full set of replacement valves just in case but they are not new ones a real mixture of makes Westinghouse , Tungsten and others . Thye all look in good order but I know how decieving that can be . I rteally need to be able to get them tested but do not know anyone locally that has the equipment . Will hopefully not have to use any of these for quite a while .

Is there any issue with using different makes of valves in the same amplifier so long as they are all the same type ? Yes I know that people often go on about matched quads and the like but in an OTL circuit I am not sure that will matter , then again it just might .

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Many thanks for your comments and advice. I’m pretty sure your right about the Pathos Amps not liking NOS tubes and indeed it is a rather unusual hybrid design (albeit a fantastic amp).

I’ve gone back to what Pathos suggested (I.e. “the original tubes”) which are bog standard non-costly, Electro Harmonix Gold Pin and the to be quite truthful, sound just as good a the £100+ Mullard tubes.

So..... sense has prevailed and just hurt in the pocket


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Hi Boysey, 

How many Genelex Gold Lion ECC83 valves have you managed to collect, I am trying to slowly amass enough to make a spare set of valves for my EAR V20 which uses them as output valves if you are interested in recouping some of your outlay.

Kind regards

Ward

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Hi Boysey, 
How many Genelex Gold Lion ECC83 valves have you managed to collect, I am trying to slowly amass enough to make a spare set of valves for my EAR V20 which uses them as output valves if you are interested in recouping some of your outlay.
Kind regards
Ward


Hi Ward, I very sorry I haven’t got the massive compliment of ECC83’s you need for the V20 (only a couple I’m afraid) and four ECC82’s which I’ll keep for spares. (these only arrived yesterday from Hotrox)

Unfortunately, I went completely off the rails and purchased NOS Mullard ECC82/ECC83 tubes at ridiculous prices. However, I have a mate as daft as me, who might take these off my hands.

My god.... that’s a big compliment of tubes in the V20


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Andrew, do be careful getting used PL509/519's, most of then will have been thrashed to death in old colour TV sets.

The EAR V20 is another problem.

The original long plate Mullards had a maximum anode dissipation of 2.5Watts. that is what is needed for the V20.

looking at the operating conditions it's normally run at 1 to 2 mA anode current at up to 250 Volts. 2mA at 250V means a dissipation of up to 500mW.

This resulted in many manufacturers downsizing the anode to only 1/2 Watt diss. this makes no difference in most small signal circuits but put them in a V20 where they are pushed into grid current then you could run into trouble.

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Super Wammer

Thanks for the advice as I said need to find someone with testing equipment to run through what I have got.

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20 hours ago, toprepairman said:

Andrew, do be careful getting used PL509/519's, most of then will have been thrashed to death in old colour TV sets.

The EAR V20 is another problem.

The original long plate Mullards had a maximum anode dissipation of 2.5Watts. that is what is needed for the V20.

looking at the operating conditions it's normally run at 1 to 2 mA anode current at up to 250 Volts. 2mA at 250V means a dissipation of up to 500mW.

This resulted in many manufacturers downsizing the anode to only 1/2 Watt diss. this makes no difference in most small signal circuits but put them in a V20 where they are pushed into grid current then you could run into trouble.

Thank-you for the warning Henry, the V20 was re-valved by the supplying dealer just before I bought it and is still going strong on a full set of JJs; my thinking was to collect a replacement set of ECC83s and ECC82s for the future when eventually needed and had heard only good things about Genalex Gold Lions, though in actual fact I dropped a clanger as I mixed up the first batch of valves I bought which turned out to be Golden Dragons which as you probably know are not Russian but instead Chinese, so I will eventually sell them off at some point once I have a complete set of the same brand of valves.  Any suggestions less expensive than Mullards if Genalex are unsuitable would be highly appreciated.

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