Leem

Johnny Darko

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There are detailed threads on several sites with guys who own $100k speakers, $85k amps and $80k DACs who purchase a lot of different speaker and component cables that cost up to $8k each. They spend a ton of time experimenting with different combinations. Sometimes the cheaper cable wins the day and sometimes the most expensive ones triumph. Some will argue this is just a case of silly rich people falling for snake oil. But the detailed testing and extensive time investment demonstrates there is a difference depending on system pairing, just like there is for different connect plug technologies, DACs, and streamers...

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12 minutes ago, PhotoMax said:

There are detailed threads on several sites with guys who own $100k speakers, $85k amps and $80k DACs who purchase a lot of different speaker and component cables that cost up to $8k each. They spend a ton of time experimenting with different combinations. Sometimes the cheaper cable wins the day and sometimes the most expensive ones triumph. Some will argue this is just a case of silly rich people falling for snake oil. But the detailed testing and extensive time investment demonstrates there is a difference depending on system pairing, just like there is for different connect plug technologies, DACs, and streamers...

I agree, ‘silly rich people falling for snake oil’ .

Keith

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Keith, that’s it? Your one size fits all statement covers this whole arena? Please...

Of course there are “silly rich people” who will instantly buy the trendy kit even if it does not add anything. But then there are wealthy people who became wealthy because they are smart, work hard, are entrepreneurial and make careful decisions while building their own companies. Some will also bring the same focus to all the stuff they buy. Their experiments, testing and spending, all done with a open mind, are too numerous  to simply dismiss as some mass audiophile hypnosis. 

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17 minutes ago, PhotoMax said:

Keith, that’s it? Your one size fits all statement covers this whole arena? Please...

Of course there are “silly rich people” who will instantly buy the trendy kit even if it does not add anything. But then there are wealthy people who became wealthy because they are smart, work hard, are entrepreneurial and make careful decisions while building their own companies. Some will also bring the same focus to all the stuff they buy. Their experiments, testing and spending, all done with a open mind, are too numerous  to simply dismiss as some mass audiophile hypnosis. 

Yet you're happy to dismiss the science that says it's identical?

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Science?

Look, this is a long and silly debate. If you go to more computer audio focused forums you will see a lot of folks who are 100% in with the whole “zeros and ones” group think. Even when user experience shows otherwise. Some will argue that all DACs sound the same, that all streamers sound the same, that cables don’t matter and that there is no benefit to having a preamp in your system. But there countless users who actually spend a lot of money and time mixing all of these elements to create the sound experience they are working towards. What users are looking for is not always “better”. They want “different” or a custom mix that satisfies their own enjoyment. Some will have rigid preconceptions too, but after testing, will admit to “actually that does change the sound”.

I think the worst concept in audio is the absolutist concept of “always”. 

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1 hour ago, PhotoMax said:

But the detailed testing and extensive time investment demonstrates there is a difference depending on system pairing

It demonstrates people think there is a difference, which is different to proving there is one.

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Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, PhotoMax said:

Science?

Look, this is a long and silly debate. If you go to more computer audio focused forums you will see a lot of folks who are 100% in with the whole “zeros and ones” group think. Even when user experience shows otherwise. Some will argue that all DACs sound the same, that all streamers sound the same, that cables don’t matter and that there is no benefit to having a preamp in your system. But there countless users who actually spend a lot of money and time mixing all of these elements to create the sound experience they are working towards. What users are looking for is not always “better”. They want “different” or a custom mix that satisfies their own enjoyment. Some will have rigid preconceptions too, but after testing, will admit to “actually that does change the sound”.

I think the worst concept in audio is the absolutist concept of “always”. 

You can't reason with a fixed mindset mate. It's actually impossible too in fact. People who get errections for charts and historical data trending are not actually in this game for the enjoyment of music, for that emotional connection most of us seek. The kit is only the means to getting you that connection with music. If you are fixated on the kit and only the kit, then you've already lost the argument.

Edited by Mad4it

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1 hour ago, Leem said:

Yet you're happy to dismiss the science that says it's identical?

My suggestion: get real life experience, because it is only thing that counts 

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2 minutes ago, Mad4it said:

You can't reason with a fixed mindset mate. It's actually impossible too in fact. People who get errections for charts and historical data trending are not actually in this game for the enjoyment of music, for that emotional connection most of us seek. The kit is only the means to getting you that connection with music. If you are fixated on the kit and only the kit, then you've already lost the argument.

If you're fixated on digital cables changing sound then you've already lost the argument

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Good point Martin. But how can you quantify proof here? You just can’t set a standard.

Most of us will admit (maybe only privately) that we have our own purchase bias and budget threshold. There is a fine line between “that was a great upgrade, well worth the extra money” and “that is just crazy, only fools spend that kind of money”. Your own limits and thinking does not become the gold standard.

There is scale here. For someone who has a $2000 system spending $900 on a power supply cord might seem just crazy. But for the rarified user who has a $200,000 ML Neolithic and Dag amp system spending $40,000 on eight cords and doing solid testing to find the best one is quite practical. For everyone else: your mileage may vary...

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1 minute ago, mentt said:

My suggestion: get real life experience, because it is only thing that counts 

As a bloke with a degree in physics and 35+ years working in IT I suspect I have enough real life experience

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Just now, Leem said:

As a bloke with a degree in physics and 35+ years working in IT I suspect I have enough real life experience

I have a degree in Computer Science and I've 20 years IT experience....so what!

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2 minutes ago, Mad4it said:

I have a degree in Computer Science and I've 20 years IT experience....so what!

So you should know that digital cables don't change sound

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, Leem said:

As a bloke with a degree in physics and 35+ years working in IT I suspect I have enough real life experience

And yet you never had good cable in your system 

Edited by mentt

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Posted (edited)

There is also a collective group think on different forums. Some forums are heavily into measurements, square waves, signal charts, distortion levels and circuitry, etc. Some will declare “I have 40 years in IT and engineering, blah, blah...” Do they have a point and can contribute? Of course!

But there are others who know nothing about numbers, measurements, and audio graphs. But they might have way, way better hearing and a superior focus/dedication for music. Their journey in audio and spending might be very different. 
 

There is no perfect rule here...

* EDIT: I actually wrote this before the previous statements about decades in IT and engineering. 🤣

Edited by PhotoMax

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