ChemMan

Wanted: Turntable Pros and Cons

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, DomT said:

 He still has his 1980s LP12 because it just does music better. (But not suggesting that you get an LP12 at all)

Of course 'music' is a bs term. It is meaningless and not possible to measure but hopefully you will understand the sentiment.

That's been an issue for about as long as I can remember. My first Linn from 1978, with a Grace & Supex was replaced a few years later with a newer version with Tiktok and Asak. Took about a year for the penny to drop that it was 'better hifi' but less fun and that I was playing a lot less music.

Most recent Linn I've heard was top of the range a decade or so ago. I confess I can remember precisely nothing about the experience, although perhaps that just reflects how my perspective has altered over the years.

Edited by notevenclose

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Super Wammer
3 hours ago, ChemMan said:

I don't want to buy cheap gear and if going with used vinyl it would seem random hiss and pops are going to be most unavoidable. New Vinyl is certainly not coming highly recommended by anyone.

I understand your sentiment but what I would say is the difference between a Systemdek IIx with a Rega and a Goldring G1042 is not a million miles away from a 4grand turntable with a 4 grand arm and cartridge (puts hard hat on and dodges the bombs that will be thrown) ..  Search out local wammers who use vinyl and go listen to theirs and see what it does for your soul .. it may just rock your socks off .. as for random hiss that is what is on analogue master tapes .. as for pops and clicks they are inevitable but even so you really need to get your ears around a good vinyl system just to make sure you are making the right decision :D 
 

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8 minutes ago, uzzy said:

Search out local wammers who use vinyl and go listen to theirs and see what it does for your soul

The only "wammer' in this country is me as far as I can tell.  I can listen at the dealer and that's about it.  One of the real drawbacks of being an expat is you don't get a large circle of people you know that are grounded in a scene like HiFi.  And the circle itself is a lot smaller.  I know one person who has a TT.  He is the guy I sold my old system to.  

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3 hours ago, ChemMan said:

I don't want to buy cheap gear and if going with used vinyl it would seem random hiss and pops are going to be most unavoidable. New Vinyl is certainly not coming highly recommended by anyone.

Just to say that if you buy secondhand there is a grading scale for the quality of the actual LP and it’s cover. If you buy Excellent and above then you should not have problems with background noise. 

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Vinyl is a hobby just like many others spend what your budget allows and enjoy the experience.

My mate has a vintage Thorens TD150 a old marantz reciever with built in phono all hooked up to a pair of 40 year old JR Rogers 149 speakers (which he purchase new) and  honestly it sounds really rather lovely for the music he listens to.

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Posted (edited)

I've always had a TT. My first proper one was a Systemdek 2S which looked like a biscuit tin bought at the end of the 80's. Since then I've had a Xerxes, Notts Analog Spacedek and my current Clearaudio Champion Ltd. I've gone from a Goldring 1042 through a few Dynavectors and now an AT33PTG. I've bought around 1000 albums and around 300 12's. It's a decent front end, NVA Phono stage and sympathetic system. It still sounds lovely. 

I've never owned a CD player as my main source but did have a CD recorder for recording CD's for the car. 

Would I buy another TT if I were starting again - No. 

Tidal has 40million tunes, Spotify 33 Million. Hi res streams are very good now and even inexpensive streamers like the Bluesound for £500 can stream MQA albums. Streaming offers more titles, instant access, uninterrupted listening, remote control from your seat and very good sound if partnered well with the rest of your system.

I listen to digital 90% of the time and have found loads and loads more music via Spotify and Tidal than I can realistically get through.

I still enjoy the odd long listening session to vinyl, it's a combo of nostalgia, the analog sound (whatever that is, probably distortion but nice distortion) and the fact that I've still got all these albums but starting this all up from scratch, what would be the point? That cartoon is horribly accurate, to do vinyl well really does require much time and patience to set it all up, a good MC and phono stage, excellent isolation and finally a cracking good deck. 3.5k will do it but is there something you could use that 3.5k for elsewhere? Solid gold pants, coke and hookers, half a sportscar??

Having said all that the look on my mutiroom, digtal guru, why do you still have records, mate when I played him the Abbey Road master of Solid Air reminded me why I have and love my TT.

Edited by joolsburger
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4 hours ago, ChemMan said:

@uzzy

I don't want to buy cheap gear and if going with used vinyl it would seem random hiss and pops are going to be most unavoidable. New Vinyl is certainly not coming highly recommended by anyone.

Different cartridges will give different amounts of surface noise, some are good at not revealing too much noise. But comparing different cartridges is very difficult. If you buy a Rega TT I would not have their cartridges, think there are far better ones out there.

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4 minutes ago, BeeRay said:

Different cartridges will give different amounts of surface noise, some are good at not revealing too much noise. But comparing different cartridges is very difficult. If you buy a Rega TT I would not have their cartridges, think there are far better ones out there.

my preliminary research says an ortofon cadenza red would be a good choice.

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3 minutes ago, ChemMan said:

my preliminary research says an ortofon cadenza red would be a good choice.

I don't know that one but it's pretty expensive. Cartridge choice is quite complicated, depends on the arm and TT etc and your taste. I would start out more in the £300 range. 

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@DomT@BeeRay    What about this for €2450 out the door.  Discogs has a shop that ships from Belgium. Steely Dan Gaucho 5 bucks near mint; same for Kind of Blue but mint.

Promotion package consisting of:

Well Tempered Lab Simplex

Well Tempered Lab DPS power supply

Well Tempered Lab TLC cartridge

Well Tempered Lab RIAA phono stage

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Super Wammer
35 minutes ago, ChemMan said:

my preliminary research says an ortofon cadenza red would be a good choice.

The Red models in each Ortofon range are the mellowest, according to their blurb and also my experience at their roadshow two or three years ago.  They have the simplest stylus profiles - by which I mean the shape - so tend to sit fractionally higher in the groove, hence avoiding the grunge that typically resides at the bottom!

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19 minutes ago, ChemMan said:

@DomT@BeeRay    What about this for €2450 out the door.  Discogs has a shop that ships from Belgium. Steely Dan Gaucho 5 bucks near mint; same for Kind of Blue but mint.

Promotion package consisting of:

Well Tempered Lab Simplex

Well Tempered Lab DPS power supply

Well Tempered Lab TLC cartridge

Well Tempered Lab RIAA phono stage

I really like the music that the WT turntables produce but have only heard them with Dynavector cartridges. (Have used Dynavector for 14 years.) Am not familiar with their phonostages either. 

I think that it was Jason Kennedy who said that it was all the turntable a person ever needed. 

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Super Wammer
31 minutes ago, ChemMan said:

@DomT@BeeRay    What about this for €2450 out the door.  Discogs has a shop that ships from Belgium. Steely Dan Gaucho 5 bucks near mint; same for Kind of Blue but mint.

Promotion package consisting of:

Well Tempered Lab Simplex

Well Tempered Lab DPS power supply

Well Tempered Lab TLC cartridge

Well Tempered Lab RIAA phono stage

Just to add that I think that there is a lot of merit in buying from the same company. For example my cartridge, arm and phonostage is all from Audio Note. This is not universal though and I agree with an earlier poster who recommended not to use Rega cartridges on a Rega t/t. 

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Posted (edited)

I have a Well Tempered and over the years I have had a lot of turntables. They work well with a vast range of cartridges, because the arm is damped and the setup means that the arm does very little in terms of having an effect. I've had everything from an Io to an AT95 on this one. At the moment, it's mainly at AT-F2 and it works splendidly. The Well Tempered has always been a left field choice and remains nowhere near as well known as it ought to be.

However (you know there was one coming) it is anything but easy to use at first. The arm suspension is literally a bit of nylon string and getting it level and accurate is a pig. It also (at least mine does) needs a quick tweak quite often to get the azimuth correct. Then there is 'the belt'. For those who don't know the turntable, the platter basically rests against a vertical lubricated pad as well as standing on a free bearing. The drive 'belt' keeps it in tension. But, the drive belt is a piece of nyplon string, only it's not much thicker than a human hair. You WILL need at least half a dozen belts to get you through the first month as you will keep knocking them off, and when you do, you'll never find them again. They are so thin they simply vanish. Once you've got the hang, it becomes second nature. I've had the same belt for about two years now.

Sum up? If you can live with the foibles and eccentricities and if you are nimble fingered and apt to taking care, it's a winner. For a first turntable, it does have the potential to put you off vinyl forever though.

Incidentally, as for actual performance, I've had mine many years now and unless I was to spend at massive amount more, I wouldn't bother to try and better it because the improvement wouldn't be worth it IMO. At times, I hate the bloody thing, but it's blindingly good.

Edited by rabski
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2 hours ago, uzzy said:

I understand your sentiment but what I would say is the difference between a Systemdek IIx with a Rega and a Goldring G1042 is not a million miles away from a 4grand turntable with a 4 grand arm and cartridge (puts hard hat on and dodges the bombs that will be thrown) ..  Search out local wammers who use vinyl and go listen to theirs and see what it does for your soul .. it may just rock your socks off .. as for random hiss that is what is on analogue master tapes .. as for pops and clicks they are inevitable but even so you really need to get your ears around a good vinyl system just to make sure you are making the right decision :D 
 

You buy mint records and look after em. With a good stylus and arm...invest in a good cleaner...stored correctly they dont get many pops and clicks.

As with all formats I've had over the years there was always great stuff mingled with a lot of crap..and that is the same as recordings..

The LP is a bit like a first edition leather bound novel..yeah you can translate it and down load it in a thousand languages..but to hold it while you read it is almost spiritual..The LP represents something of it's time , an icon of my age.  It's not perfect , it never will be..."theres just too many constantly changing  forces"..analogue reflects nature..

I will always crave it..

But I have other formats and each has their time and place..

Don't listen to anybody until you have heard vinyl at it's best.. 

Kindest regards Julian 

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