deepsleep

Streamer/DAC - Where did I go wrong ?

Recommended Posts

Super Dealer
33 minutes ago, Fourlegs said:

I recall from the op’s starter post,  he didn’t have any issues with the sound of his system but rather he felt that his friends all in one box did the same for less money. 
 

I for one am not convinced that his friends all in one box did have the same sound quality but rather that a relatively quick swop over wasn’t sufficient to do a proper comparison. 
 

The wam machine has leapt into action to try to rubbish a perfectly good system and then gone on to try to get the OP to change some or all of that perfectly good system. My advice to the OP is to stop listening to his system and to listen to some music instead for a few weeks. 
 

PS, thanks for the shout out re my cables!

Contemporary well designed oversampling DACs sound more or less identical, I suspect that the one box solution did sound exactly the same.

The OP was sold some expensive snake oil products that will not improve sound quality, the tragedy is that this practise continues with the support of magazines, manufacturers and dealers, shame on them.

Keith

  • Like 2
  • Haha 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Super Wammer
54 minutes ago, Fourlegs said:

I recall from the op’s starter post,  he didn’t have any issues with the sound of his system but rather he felt that his friends all in one box did the same for less money.

I suppose you're right (you always are, as we both know) but you need to be gentle on fellow wammers who took the title "Streamer/DAC - Where did I go wrong?" as their steer!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Moderator
Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, PuritéAudio said:

Contemporary well designed oversampling DACs sound more or less identical,

Yes.  All shit. Because only rubbish, computer game chipsets available. Hi-Fi companies have given up.

Edited by meninblack
  • Like 1
  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Super Wammer
20 minutes ago, PuritéAudio said:

Contemporary well designed oversampling DACs sound more or less identical, I suspect that the one box solution did sound exactly the same.

The OP was sold some expensive snake oil products that will not improve sound quality, the tragedy is that this practise continues with the support of magazines, manufacturers and dealers, shame on them.

Keith

You mean "practice".

So here we have a guy selling DACs from £1,000 to £10,000 with his holier than though prouncements about "snake oil" as if he's the only guy making an honest living out of hifi and eveyone else is pulling a fast one. Let me think about that.

Chord products make up 80% of the OP's £11,000; you might not sell or like them, but it doesn't make them snake oil. Careful, you're approaching libel here.

You're in the hifi industry. It might be helpful if you could identify which parts of that industry (the industry which earns you your livelihood but you appear generally to hold in disdain) you hold in high esteem; I'm not sure how much remains once you have removed magazines, manufacturers and dealers.

GLWS!

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Super Wammer
41 minutes ago, Lee M said:

Lol. I think this thread is just a case of buyers remorse. 

No, it is just another case of warmers with too much time on their hands. The sooner everyone gets back to work the better it will be! 

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Super Wammer
3 minutes ago, Fourlegs said:

No, it is just another case of warmers with too much time on their hands. The sooner everyone gets back to work the better it will be! 

You mean wammers not warmers.

This is forum life!

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Fourlegs said:

No, it is just another case of warmers with too much time on their hands. The sooner everyone gets back to work the better it will be! 

I was thinking of starting a thread about pre-amps, more of a understanding of the differences but i can imagine the arguments starting

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Apologies if I have offended anyone by suggesting that their cables or PSUs are not good (snake oil products).

My learning this week is that in my particular case the amp and speaker combination were not up to the minimum standard necessary to benefit from them.

This could be the reason why the gap between the Naim box and my gear appeared to be close.

Perhaps it was my dealer's intention to recommend more 'suitable' £££ amp and speakers to address this but didn't want to scare me off with another huge bill ?

I have to confess that I was highly influenced by my dealer, online reviews and magazines when making my purchases.

I have been standing in the corner with my dunce cap on since posting this thread :(

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Super Wammer
18 minutes ago, TheFlash said:

You mean wammers not warmers.

This is forum life!

Pedant! And I wasn’t even going to correct you on your percentage calculation of the Chord products price (actually 67% but 80% sounds more impressive). Anyway, I’m listening to an MScaler now with a Chord DAC and it sounds superb and no oily snakes in sight. I personally think the OP’s DAC and MScaler are great and all he needs to do is chill out and stay away from HiFi forums and he will be a lot happier. 
 

Oh, and thank you for quoting K. Reading people’s quotes of his posts is the only way I get to see them. 

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Super Wammer
3 minutes ago, deepsleep said:

Apologies if I have offended anyone by suggesting that their cables or PSUs are not good (snake oil products).

My learning this week is that in my particular case the amp and speaker combination were not up to the minimum standard necessary to benefit from them.

This could be the reason why the gap between the Naim box and my gear appeared to be close.

Perhaps it was my dealer's intention to recommend more 'suitable' £££ amp and speakers to address this but didn't want to scare me off with another huge bill ?

I have to confess that I was highly influenced by my dealer, online reviews and magazines when making my purchases.

I have been standing in the corner with my dunce cap on since posting this thread :(

Don’t apologise. You have a great system which many people can only dream of owning. I have previously suggested that you should take a chill pill and forget about the system for a while and instead just relax and listen to some music and I stick by that advice. If you listen to many on here you will end up chasing your own tail in pursuit of something that doesn’t exist. 
 

And beware of those with their own agenda. 

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Moderator

The most important thing is to find speakers that work in your room and amplifiers that will drive them.  Then look at the front end.  For digital front ends the DAC is key.  Personally I find Chord stuff bright and shiny and tinkly and I don't like it.  Your milage may vary.  For me, digital sources and cables don't matter very much.  A good turntable, arm, cartridge and phono stage are important.  If you don't have vinyl, you might as well just buy any old shit - you won't notice the difference.

  • Like 2
  • Haha 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Moderator
2 minutes ago, deepsleep said:

Apologies if I have offended anyone by suggesting that their cables or PSUs are not good (snake oil products).

My learning this week is that in my particular case the amp and speaker combination were not up to the minimum standard necessary to benefit from them.

This could be the reason why the gap between the Naim box and my gear appeared to be close.

Perhaps it was my dealer's intention to recommend more 'suitable' £££ amp and speakers to address this but didn't want to scare me off with another huge bill ?

I have to confess that I was highly influenced by my dealer, online reviews and magazines when making my purchases.

I have been standing in the corner with my dunce cap on since posting this thread :(

There is a thought that the MA252 and Harbeths might not be the best combination going, but that's a different argument entirely. I respectfully suggest that the combination is more than good enough to be able to discern even the slightest difference between DACs, streamers, cables, next door's cat, etc.

The old argument of 'your system probably isn't high enough resolution to tell the difference between wonder product A and wonder product B is the oldest trick in the book, and it's 99% utter rubbish. If you can't hear the difference between A and B using an MA252 and harbeth P3ESRs it's because there isn't enough of a difference.

Beware of the path of ever-increasing expenditure to try and fix a non-existent problem. Your earlier suggestion of paring it back a little and living with it for a while is by far and away the best idea as far as I can see. You could easily spend thirty grand on a 'better' amplifier and speakers and still not be able to hear much of a difference.

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Super Wammer
11 minutes ago, deepsleep said:

I have been standing in the corner with my dunce cap on since posting this thread

You needn’t feel that, really.  Your sources are in many respects as good as one can get. And although ‘source first’ as an approach to system building dates from Linn’s advocacy of their LP12 turntable, it’s hard to argue with for long-term satisfaction.  But even modest digital sources can sound very good, and your pal’s Naim is way better than modest.  

Others have mentioned that even your relatively compact room can handle larger speakers, and you presumably like the Harbeth sound?  There’s plenty of scope there.  And even better amps are available.  

What you do, aside from trying not to fret, and trying a streamlined version of your source, may depend on domestic matters.  For example, if you are in an apartment then wider-range speakers might simply irritate neighbours.  If that’s not the case then maybe your dealer - post lockdown - could lend some alternatives.  However, it depends what you are seeking, long-term. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Super Wammer
27 minutes ago, deepsleep said:

Apologies if I have offended anyone by suggesting that their cables or PSUs are not good (snake oil products).

My learning this week is that in my particular case the amp and speaker combination were not up to the minimum standard necessary to benefit from them.

This could be the reason why the gap between the Naim box and my gear appeared to be close.

Perhaps it was my dealer's intention to recommend more 'suitable' £££ amp and speakers to address this but didn't want to scare me off with another huge bill ?

I have to confess that I was highly influenced by my dealer, online reviews and magazines when making my purchases.

I have been standing in the corner with my dunce cap on since posting this thread :(

Nooo!!! Not dunce, definitely not dunce. Message me and we can talk about my £5k+ speaker purchase only last year, and i think I'm a pretty seasoned pro here. Dealer recommended burn-in first (done) and £2k fancy cables second (saw this one coming! I'm no cable sceptic but these were not going to fix a fundamental flaw).

Don't panic into anything. You have some great components there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, deepsleep said:

Apologies if I have offended anyone by suggesting that their cables or PSUs are not good (snake oil products).

Don't worry, you have absolutely nothing to apologise for. You're just seeing what a wide range of views there are out there. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.