hifinutt

No going back ..extinction rebellion

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11 hours ago, bigrod said:

I have studied insects for more than 50yrs...specifically lepidoptera..as a lad in the late 60s I would put out my light trap and would often catch in excess of 2,000 specimens ,humanely of course..I have daily data on catches over 50 yrs in the same locality..when I last put the heath trap out at my old house I caught less than 100 specimens..

I now have it set up at the new house ready to switch on after the cool snap over the weekend..

Pesticides have not caused the overall demise of lepidoptera but more so the loss of habitat..several thousand acres of prime habitat around my old house has been lost to development over the last 40 years..a field full of rape may look colourful but is of no use to 99.9% of insect life unless you're a bee..councils cut back verges and hedgerows at totally the wrong time when most insect larva are active..people plant non native flowers in their gardens and clear them before winter,  neither is great for good insect populations..

Non native trees are planted in parks and estates that British insects cannot thrive on..

We should be planting fruit trees..great for bees in spring ,hundreds of species of insects feed on the foliage, with the added bonus of a crop of fruit in autumn..

Kindest regards Julian 

Thanks Julian!  When I first started driving in the 1960s, one of the essentials you bought was a liquid to clear 'fly squash' off your windscreen.  Now in the Summer very few perish on my windscreen.  Maybe not a scientific measurement method, but it's a good indicator.  Remember quite recently reading a quote from a Farmer talking about Veganism. Said if they could see how some pest control chemicals destroy insects.  They might think twice about a plant based diet? 

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Obviously not an arable farmer but a beef/sheep farmer then. So are we saying all crops are toxic? What a load of bollocks.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

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53 minutes ago, Pete the Feet said:

Obviously not an arable farmer but a beef/sheep farmer then. So are we saying all crops are toxic? What a load of bollocks.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk
 

Don't think you read the post.  It says some pesticides destroy living being in a cruel way.  Think a lot of organic arable farmers might agree?  One species pests are other species food source.  

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10 hours ago, Mikeandvan said:

Come summer when the depression is really kicking in, these middle class professional moaners will be lucky if they can get a job picking crops, still at least they won't be polluting the skies with their annual trip to India. 

So much truth in your post above! I also hope these people think long and hard about their place in the world and stop looking down on others.

My personal view is that if this situation calls into question the outdated "Class System" and the pretentiousness surrounding it, then this might be the start of the positive changes some people are hoping for. 

👍

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Back to Hydrogen, its got two problems, the first leads to the second, then there is always the third..........

1. It takes more energy to produce than it provides

2. Very slow and low take up of this tech

Other problem  3. Expensive to store and use safely.

After 30 years of talk about it not much has happened........................

I'd be happier using Ethanol 

Safer than Hydrogen, less energy density than petrol but much better on the environment and you can grow it............

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, EddieRUKidding said:

1. It takes more energy to produce than it provides

That is true of any energy storage/conversion technology. Something to do with the laws of thermodynamics if I'm not mistaken...:whistle:

Edited by Tony_J
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14 minutes ago, Tony_J said:

That is true of any energy storage/conversion technology. Something to do with the laws of thermodynamics if I'm not mistaken...:whistle:

True but with fuels like Hydrogen it is an issue, energy hungry to produce - i.e. electricity which needs to be produced from coal/ hydrocarbon/ nuclear- and no solar is not a base load electricity producer (so don't say solar as it can't meet all our energy needs, even with wind).

Ethanol is a more viable alternative to traditional fossil fuels than Hydrogen

"there is not enough cheap clean electricity (renewable and nuclear) for this hydrogen to become a significant part of the low-carbon economy, and carbon dioxide is a by-product of the SMR process"

SMR - is an overall endothermic process in which the methane (natural gas) reacts with super-heated steam in the presence of a nickel-based catalyst to produce hydrogen, carbon dioxide, and carbon monoxide.

Hydrogen is no silver bullet.................

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On 05/05/2020 at 18:30, Ron Hilditch said:

Thanks Julian!  When I first started driving in the 1960s, one of the essentials you bought was a liquid to clear 'fly squash' off your windscreen.  Now in the Summer very few perish on my windscreen.  Maybe not a scientific measurement method, but it's a good indicator.  Remember quite recently reading a quote from a Farmer talking about Veganism. Said if they could see how some pest control chemicals destroy insects.  They might think twice about a plant based diet? 

That last point is misguided. Animals that people eat in the UK like cows and sheep are fed mostly plant crops grown on farms (plus a lot of seafood, beef cattle being the largest consumers of seafood in the world, even more than humans), which are sprayed with pest control chemicals. The energy we get from eating the animals is less than the energy from the crops they eat. So there’d still be some insect killing with a plant based diet, but very little animal killing and healthier oceans.

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On 02/05/2020 at 19:11, rabski said:

I'm a member of XR, but not active any longer. Unfortunately, the motives are very good and people at 'ground level' are committed to a good cause, however, the leadership seems to want to take the route of 'disrupt and destroy', rather than inform and challenge. It won't work. Walk into a business that's someone's livelihood and tell them they need to stop trading because they're ruining the planet and you'll get short shrift. The trick is to show people how, where possible, to change in a positive way.

It's like the petroleum industry. Chaning it involves not just the people at the top, but the people all the way down. The petroleum industry is responsible for the employment of literally billions of people worldwide, many of whom have no alternatives.

XR has been good at raising awareness, but what's needed now is an approach that is non-combative. In every field, you need to work with people, not against them, if you have any long-term aims.

very true , they targeted land rover which is currently on lockdown and a few dealerships 

https://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/extinction-rebellion-cambridge-protest-coronavirus-18181565

Car dealers and manufacturers have been warned that action by activists Extinction Rebellion could see businesses targeted TODAY.

An official alert has been issued by the SMMT – which has been leaked by several sources to Car Dealer Magazine – which warns car showrooms, factories and head offices could be targeted by protestors.

The document says that Extinction Rebellion is campaigning against a range of industries returning to work ‘as usual’ when the lockdown measures are lifted.

The document, circulated yesterday and warning of action beginning today, could see posters pasted on windows or alongside brand signage, front doors, other entrances or window displays.

The alert document said: ‘Photographs of the images in situ will then be posted on social media with the hashtags #notgoingback #anotherworldispossible #closedforgood and #allforclimate. Posts will be directed to @gov.uk and will name the business’ social media handle.’

The SMMT legal team – who issued the document – says that while the campaign is expected to be largely social-media based, the possibility of ‘physical disruption cannot be ruled out’.

https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/extinction-rebellion-activists-target-car-dealerships-factories-today-warns-leaked-document/191262

 

 

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Posted (edited)
23 hours ago, EddieRUKidding said:

Back to Hydrogen, its got two problems, the first leads to the second, then there is always the third..........

1. It takes more energy to produce than it provides

2. Very slow and low take up of this tech

Other problem  3. Expensive to store and use safely.

After 30 years of talk about it not much has happened........................

I'd be happier using Ethanol 

Safer than Hydrogen, less energy density than petrol but much better on the environment and you can grow it............

22 hours ago, EddieRUKidding said:

True but with fuels like Hydrogen it is an issue, energy hungry to produce - i.e. electricity which needs to be produced from coal/ hydrocarbon/ nuclear- and no solar is not a base load electricity producer (so don't say solar as it can't meet all our energy needs, even with wind).

Ethanol is a more viable alternative to traditional fossil fuels than Hydrogen

"there is not enough cheap clean electricity (renewable and nuclear) for this hydrogen to become a significant part of the low-carbon economy, and carbon dioxide is a by-product of the SMR process"

SMR - is an overall endothermic process in which the methane (natural gas) reacts with super-heated steam in the presence of a nickel-based catalyst to produce hydrogen, carbon dioxide, and carbon monoxide.

Hydrogen is no silver bullet.................

Ok so I will answer this .

Not quite true , renewable hydrogen is a very convenient and effective storage medium for renewable energy of all types , it can also be used to store excess electricity energy from the grid at off peak times that is usually wasted .

https://hydrogeneurope.eu/harnessing-full-power-renewable-energy-hydrogen

Australia is planning to export solar hydrogen to Japan and then around the rest of the world stored in liquid form and in ammonia .

https://www.pv-magazine-australia.com/2020/01/24/australia-and-japan-agree-to-hydrogen-future/

Making renewable hydrogen involves no exploration, drilling , refining , oil rigs, huge oil pipelines with all the leakage and pollution that they cause plus there is almost zero environmental damage with renewable hydrogen.

Hydrogen fuel cells are infinitely scalable from the size of a pin head to the size of a mountain and can be used to power anything anywhere .

Another huge bonus is there would be no more reasons to fight pointless wars over oil that would save trillions of Dollars plus the huge loss of life caused by those wars .

Factor all that expense that goes into making a gallon of petrol or a litre of natural gas compared to a solar panel and a windmill  some water and a hydrolyser that can provide the hydrogen on the filling station site .

https://www.itm-power.com/h2-stations

https://www.protononsite.com/hydrogen-fueling

https://www.actaspa.com/type/on-site-hydrogen-production/

Ethanol is a good fuel and is already available in the form of E85 and E100 , but most cars need modification to run on it.

The big problem with ethanol is that it's mainly made from corn or Maize. 

large scale farming to supply corn for ethanol would take a huge chunk out of food production  land quotas , there is simply not enough fertile land in the world to supply enough Ethanol for world use without seriously compromised food supplies .

Leaked Hyrogen completely clears from the the area in seconds straight upwards at high speed so there is much less risk of ignition , and if it does ignite it completely burns away in a few seconds .

Ethanol is far more dangerous than Hydrogen to store and use especially when filling a vehicle.

Ethanol spills out onto the floor and evaporates with a very high risk of ignition then burns with an invisible flame for quite some time ! 

Steam reforming is what the oil companies do to obtain hydrogen from natural gas to be used in cat crackers at refineries and is not a sustainable alternative to Solar , wind , geothermal, heat pump , tidal , wave power ,hydroelectric, or general off peak renewable power, plus upcoming algae hydrogen farms powered by sunlight .

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2019-09/uoc-aab091619.php

The hydrogen bubbles off the algae and is captured and compressed into tanks for general use on a huge scale .

The biggest irony is that oil companies are the biggest single producers of hydrogen in the world .

Hydrogen is the only viable bullet we have short of hydrogen fusion reactors !

We might be waiting for those for some time.:)

Edited by Electro
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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, Nagraboy said:

That last point is misguided. Animals that people eat in the UK like cows and sheep are fed mostly plant crops grown on farms (plus a lot of seafood, beef cattle being the largest consumers of seafood in the world, even more than humans), which are sprayed with pest control chemicals. The energy we get from eating the animals is less than the energy from the crops they eat. So there’d still be some insect killing with a plant based diet, but very little animal killing and healthier oceans.

There are many farms in the UK that can't grow crops. Hill farms in all the Nations making up this Country are generally only suitable for grazing livestock. If they went out of business?  The yield per acre would have to increase even further.  Not to mention the pressure caused by rewilding arable land, some of it among the most productive.  As an example of what is happening due to the use of pesticide and artificial fertilisers. Our village pond is filled by rainwater runoff. It is digusting, the surface is covered with growth so badly, wildfowl no longer live on it. It is cleaned out and this disgusting foul growth just comes back.  What's the point in cleaning industrial pollution from our waterways, if we just pollute it even more with agricultural slurry?

Edited by Ron Hilditch
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Lets see what happens in 12 month hence, I say particularly now not much- there will be continued construction of solar and wind but no real development of hydrogen has they has not been for the last 30 years- It will remain like the Tesla a car for the rich and foolish and a toy for the lab and rocket scientists ..............

As for  "UK that can't grow crops" - take a look a the bigger picture Ag in the UK is never going to do much more than provide food for your domestic market- and provide room for Peasant hunting :D

PS also as for Solar and Wind- my objection to the current constructions going on - its all about foreign capital (usually Euro's), coming into places like Australia and creating unsustainable infrastructure that 1. Does not fit into existing transmission systems, 2 is unreliable (mechanically) and 3. not economically viable without subsidy. So basically in the end taxpayers are left making income for foreign interests.

And before you say I don't know what I'm taking about- I'm a Civil Engineer, who has worked us such bastard projects.

As I say, you have Project I'll deliver, as long as someone pays  B|

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Posted (edited)
On 10 May 2020 at 00:58, EddieRUKidding said:

Lets see what happens in 12 month hence, I say particularly now not much- there will be continued construction of solar and wind but no real development of hydrogen has they has not been for the last 30 years- It will remain like the Tesla a car for the rich and foolish and a toy for the lab and rocket scientists ..............

As for  "UK that can't grow crops" - take a look a the bigger picture Ag in the UK is never going to do much more than provide food for your domestic market- and provide room for Peasant hunting :D

PS also as for Solar and Wind- my objection to the current constructions going on - its all about foreign capital (usually Euro's), coming into places like Australia and creating unsustainable infrastructure that 1. Does not fit into existing transmission systems, 2 is unreliable (mechanically) and 3. not economically viable without subsidy. So basically in the end taxpayers are left making income for foreign interests.

And before you say I don't know what I'm taking about- I'm a Civil Engineer, who has worked us such bastard projects.

As I say, you have Project I'll deliver, as long as someone pays  B|

You could have leased a Honda Clarity  12 years ago .

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Clarity

Hydrogen fuel cell powered cars are currently available from Toyota , Honda, Hyundai, and virtually all other European car manufacturers have a partly developed car waiting in the wings .

Hydrogen filling stations are still a little scarce but new ones are coming online at a slow but increasing rate , there are two within reasonable driving distance from me.

Home hydrogen manufacture and filling points are also available from Honda and other manufacturers , they can also be configured to power your house and vice versa but this is quite an expensive option until economy of scale takes over . 

Hydrogen powered  ships are also in service and hydrogen powered aircraft are in development and use but only on a small scale so far.

Hydrogen is ideal to power aircraft due to its lightness , the only problem being the density of the fuel to give long enough flying distance, but new types of high efficiency  storage are already looking promising on that front .

Hydrogen fuel cell technology has seen a massive amount of development over the last 15 years especially in Japan and China , both these countries run hydrogen powered trains, trams and other forms of public transport plus a fairly large number of hydrogen fuel cell powered cars .

New forms of PEM cells ( proton exchange membrane ) have recently been developed that don't need any precious metals to function and many advanced methods of storing hydrogen have been developed in gas , Liquid and hydride forms .

Composite carbon fibre tanks and pipe work are the norm for storage in vehicles now and are virtually indestructible in normal use and during crash tests .

With the C19 shutdown and the amount of small businesses that have been seriously affected by it and are failing could take advantage of renewable hydrogen to re -purpose re -train and fill the need for rapid infrastructure manufacture and roll out , this could provide a huge UK  based source of new industry and employment that would last and be sustainable for many decades to come .

It looks like you and others with your skill set might be the people needed to deliver it ! ;)

All that is needed is the will to do it  and to fight against the power ,control and vested interests of the oil companies and their lobbying power.

PS  .

Lithium battery power is a no go long term due to the  impending Lithuim Mining wars and the huge environmental damage they will cause and in turn a huge loss of human and animal life .

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/lithium-batteries-environment-impact

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/lithium-mining

Edited by Electro
Added a bit

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