DomT

USB cable for dac and JitterBug recommendations

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Super Dealer
45 minutes ago, mentt said:

Based  on your response I will assume that you have no real life experience with comparing USB cables

I have compared quite a number, a few years back separating power legs was very popular, listened to a few of those some didn't work at all ( no ‘handshake’ with the device) tried exotic silver cables which popped and spat. If we remove the faulty/poorly designed, I have heard no difference between cables which confirm to specification.

The most valid method of comparison is to use two identical dacs, one with a standard and one with boutique cable, match volumes and compare unsighted.

I often read of how trustworthy your ears are but your brain is easily deceived, if only more listeners would consider the importance of cognitive bias.

Keith

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40 minutes ago, mentt said:

Based  on your response I will assume that you have no real life experience with comparing USB cables

Of course I haven't, I rely on golden eared experts such as your good self to do it for me, though I would greatly appreciate a more rigorous testing regime.

On a more general note, I have seen posts suggesting how the addition of noise into the system via RF can affect the sound quality. I believe, from tests, that adding noise to a reproduced music signal can make the music more 'real' and 'involving', but I am surprised that specialist DAC manufacturers selling product that costs hundreds if not thousands of pounds do not take the necessary steps to eradicate this issue from their designs. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, MGTOW said:

Of course I haven't, I rely on golden eared experts such as your good self to do it for me, though I would greatly appreciate a more rigorous testing regime.

On a more general note, I have seen posts suggesting how the addition of noise into the system via RF can affect the sound quality. I believe, from tests, that adding noise to a reproduced music signal can make the music more 'real' and 'involving', but I am surprised that specialist DAC manufacturers selling product that costs hundreds if not thousands of pounds do not take the necessary steps to eradicate this issue from their designs. 

If you haven’t, not sure why you are posting in this thread . Don’t see any value of your posts if you have no personal experience with the subject. 

Edited by mentt

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, PuritéAudio said:

I have compared quite a number, a few years back separating power legs was very popular, listened to a few of those some didn't work at all ( no ‘handshake’ with the device) tried exotic silver cables which popped and spat. If we remove the faulty/poorly designed, I have heard no difference between cables which confirm to specification.

The most valid method of comparison is to use two identical dacs, one with a standard and one with boutique cable, match volumes and compare unsighted.

I often read of how trustworthy your ears are but your brain is easily deceived, if only more listeners would consider the importance of cognitive bias.

Keith

In your case I am not surprised as you also can’t tell difference between different solidstate pre-amps as you  stated some time ago 

Edited by mentt
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Super Dealer
36 minutes ago, MGTOW said:

Of course I haven't, I rely on golden eared experts such as your good self to do it for me, though I would greatly appreciate a more rigorous testing regime.

On a more general note, I have seen posts suggesting how the addition of noise into the system via RF can affect the sound quality. I believe, from tests, that adding noise to a reproduced music signal can make the music more 'real' and 'involving', but I am surprised that specialist DAC manufacturers selling product that costs hundreds if not thousands of pounds do not take the necessary steps to eradicate this issue from their designs. 

If you are interested in this why not take it up with some of these manufacturers? You problem might be that you have to write to every single DAC manufacturer but I am sure they will be grateful for your input. I know the ones that I have heard and I could give you a head start by listing these but then that would only attract the attention of a certain trouble stirrer so maybe best if you just stick to plan A and write to them all. 

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28 minutes ago, PuritéAudio said:

I have compared quite a number, a few years back separating power legs was very popular, listened to a few of those some didn't work at all ( no ‘handshake’ with the device) tried exotic silver cables which popped and spat. If we remove the faulty/poorly designed, I have heard no difference between cables which confirm to specification.

The most valid method of comparison is to use two identical dacs, one with a standard and one with boutique cable, match volumes and compare unsighted.

I often read of how trustworthy your ears are but your brain is easily deceived, if only more listeners would consider the importance of cognitive bias.

Keith

Cognitive bias is a phenomenon. Narrow-mindedness is another one.  

I'm a scientist and both of these are problems in research. Happily we have the resources to eradicate the former, as far as is humanly possible, but for any given field the latter remains, hampering progress and sucking the fun out of it..

In the case of domestic audio, there is rarely the opportunity for properly controlled tests but my impression is that people do their best to enjoy their hobby without wasting money on non-existent differences. If they are Wammers and are unaware that there is such a thing as cognitive bias I would be astonished ;)

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2 hours ago, rdale said:

“In other Wavelength Audio news, all USB DAC models and the WaveLink will now be supplied with a high-quality Audioquest USB cable at no extra cost. The Proton, Brick, and WaveLink will come with a USB Cinnamon, the Cosecant will come with a USB Carbon, and the Crimson will come with a USB Diamond.”

https://www.audionexus.com/nl14_wavelength_audio.shtml

Thanks. Not clear if that is just a shop promo or a recommendation by Rankin himself.

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Moderator
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, This boy can wait said:

If they are Wammers and are unaware that there is such a thing as cognitive bias I would be astonished ;)

There certainly seem to be Wammers that have a cognitive bias against the existence/relevance of cognitive bias...:geek:

...and some whose cognitive bias leads them to conclude that only other people suffer from it. :doh:

Edited by Tony_J
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Super Wammer
1 minute ago, halloweenman said:

Thanks. Not clear if that is just a shop promo or a recommendation by Rankin himself.

The clue is that it says "in other Wavelength Audio news..", and not "in other MyHiFi Shop news..".

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, rdale said:

The clue is that it says "in other Wavelength Audio news..", and not "in other MyHiFi Shop news..".

Not convinced. I interpret the news to be about the dacs. The cables appear to be a promo.

Edited by halloweenman

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, This boy can wait said:

If they are Wammers and are unaware that there is such a thing as cognitive bias I would be astonished ;)

Sadly being aware of it doesn't make anyone immune though.

Edited by MartinC
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43 minutes ago, Fourlegs said:

If you are interested in this why not take it up with some of these manufacturers? You problem might be that you have to write to every single DAC manufacturer but I am sure they will be grateful for your input. I know the ones that I have heard and I could give you a head start by listing these but then that would only attract the attention of a certain trouble stirrer so maybe best if you just stick to plan A and write to them all. 

Seriously, you think I consider such things to be important enough to do that?

Just making a simple point, ie dacs, quite expensive ones apparently, suffer from issues that can be fixed with the correct choice of USB cable costing a few pounds.

Any idea how absurd that sounds?

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3 minutes ago, MGTOW said:

Seriously, you think I consider such things to be important enough to do that?

Just making a simple point, ie dacs, quite expensive ones apparently, suffer from issues that can be fixed with the correct choice of USB cable costing a few pounds.

Any idea how absurd that sounds?

USB cable will not fix any DAC issues. You need to have good transport component as a start and then better USB cable can improve/adjust  result sound little bit.

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Moderator

I don't think my suggestion for a cable bake off received one reply. Surely, that is the only way to settle the debate?

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Super Wammer
3 hours ago, MGTOW said:

It would be interesting if those who claim that there is a an audible difference between USB cables would list the criteria of their (blind?) testing methods and a proper statistical analysis of the results, for example?

I used my ears and hear a difference. I have used them every day of my life in normal and critical situations eg to hear if a car is coming to cross the road safely.

I also use my ears as a musician. I can tell if an instrument is out of tune. I dont need a tuner to tell me what I already know; and virtually anyone who is not deaf could do the same. If I overload an input on my desk I can hear this artifact. I don’t need some gadget to tell me. If I want to turn up the chorus level to make my bass sound warmer I don’t need double blind testing to see if the volume has gone up as I use my ears and not the markings on the pot on the send return. But almost any non-deaf person could do the same even if they didn’t have all of the technical words to describe what they are hearing.

Why is it so difficult for you to accept that non-deaf people can hear things?

If you eat the world’s hottest chilli would it not be hot if you didn’t know it’s rating on the Scoville scale or would it be hot regardless? When you eat food do you do statistical analysis to assess quality? If you do this sighted do you discount your pleasure at the improved taste or discount it because you didn’t have verification of the ingredients or didn’t check that the food was at the same temperature as before? What happens if you are in a restaurant the people ask you opinion on the quality of the food?

Do you do double blind testing or read an analyst’s technical opinion before you decide on everything in life or is it just hifi?

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