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Is it real or placebo?

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Keith,

The Intona would have no effect on most AN DACs. Simple fact as they have galavanic isolation.

Others have said what I would have added.

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27 minutes ago, Fourlegs said:

  . . . but it could be a mistake to assume they are the final word in terms of measured assessment of all products. For sure they are one of many useful indicators but there are other engineers more experienced in measuring audio equipment than the ASR site and who are perhaps more conversant with the audio implications of different measurements. To blindly follow all of the ASR's pronouncements without question does not seem prudent

Polite way of saying he talks horse manure half the time.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, PuritéAudio said:

Every subjective Stereophile review is effusive in its praise, advertising revenue pressure I suppose,  ASR’s ‘reviews’  dispense with the sugar coating.

Keith

Not true. Your suppposition is incorrect. There are products praised that do not advertise. JA produced evidence to support that. 

https://www.stereophile.com/content/great-wall-china-0

Updated in 2013 and later on as well.

ASR's measurements have been challenged but people do not bother anymore as they recognise that the oxygen of publicity is what ASR wants.

Edited by George 47
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Super Dealer
44 minutes ago, George 47 said:

Keith,

The Intona would have no effect on most AN DACs. Simple fact as they have galavanic isolation.

Others have said what I would have added.

And yet, Quote from the Stereophile review I linked to,

‘ . Spectral analysis of the DAC 2.1x's noise floor revealed a higher level of random noise in the left channel, with power-supply–related spuriae present in the right channel (fig.5). ‘

Keith

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On 24/07/2020 at 20:19, Colinjg said:

Sorry to be a pain, but I could not disagree more.  Quality of the signal dictates everything. Amp and speakers will play rubbish if fed rubbish.

it's the signal you listen to,  if the amp and speakers let you.

I have some kind of sympathy with this. I recall my dad getting a pair of KEF Celeste-IIIs because he liked mine, and then him telling me my stereo system sounded "better" than his. His amplifier was some kind of Yamaha integrated, mine was a JVC JA-S11G, so both were decent quality but fairly budget Japanese solid state electronics. I thought the real difference was in the turntable (his = some kind of Technics jobbie, mine = Yamaha YP450), so he went out and bought the best he could afford (wise man) which turned out to be a Linn Axis. The improvement was nothing less than stunning, and he kept the turntable and the amplifier for the rest of his life. The turntable was his pride & joy. I've got it now, the electronics have gone wrong and are spinning the platter at random speeds, but I do intend to fix it or get it fixed.

Anyway my main point is, put in the best signal you can, even if the rest of the chain isn't "top-notch". It's why, over the years, I changed my turntable first, then the amplifier, and am still using donkey's years-old speakers.

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I wonder who, when buying a car takes much notice of all the measurements on offer before they buy? Would it be the miles per gallon, brake horse power, 0 - 60 time, top speed? Personally I wouldn't give a hoot about any of that, I'd buy one that I thought was comfortable, reliable , practical, economical. Of course some people love to discuss who has the car that performs the best - but not me, I buy the one I just happen to "like". I think there are some comparisons here, Audio Note have many fans, so do Alpha Romeo, some prefer a Saab, others Sonus Faber. Each brand will always have it's fans regardless of whether it measures better or worse than another.

The only thing I buy on measurements alone is clothing - even then it pays to try things on as ones stores medium is another's extra large xD

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I believe I read that John Atkinson uses a PS Audio Directstream in his reference system. A DAC that "measures poorly" but one that he clearly likes the sound of. 

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2 hours ago, Rayymondo said:

I wonder who, when buying a car takes much notice of all the measurements on offer before they buy? Would it be the miles per gallon, brake horse power, 0 - 60 time, top speed? Personally I wouldn't give a hoot about any of that, I'd buy one that I thought was comfortable, reliable , practical, economical. Of course some people love to discuss who has the car that performs the best - but not me, I buy the one I just happen to "like". I think there are some comparisons here, Audio Note have many fans, so do Alpha Romeo, some prefer a Saab, others Sonus Faber. Each brand will always have it's fans regardless of whether it measures better or worse than another.

The only thing I buy on measurements alone is clothing - even then it pays to try things on as ones stores medium is another's extra large xD

Indeed. I'll go with what I like the sound of, irrespective of measurements. However, I do take notice of measurements and may use them to construct a shortlist. Vehicles, hmmm... usually it's about what I can chuck stuff in the back of rather than bhp or 0-60 times. mpg - yes that makes a difference but only to vehicles that have equivalent load capacity.

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Super Wammer

As I’m in the know at Mercedes, these are the current top 5 questions 

1 Does it have ambient lighting?

2 What colours does it come in?

3 is it a 9 speed or 7 speed gearbox?

4 what does CLA stand for?

5 what is the road tax band?

Is there a similar pattern to audio me asks?

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5 hours ago, PuritéAudio said:

And yet, Quote from the Stereophile review I linked to,

‘ . Spectral analysis of the DAC 2.1x's noise floor revealed a higher level of random noise in the left channel, with power-supply–related spuriae present in the right channel (fig.5). ‘

Keith

Intona would not help especially as it uses a chip and not the preferred transformer. Transformers are not used by Intona as they are expensive , chips are cheap.

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Super Dealer
10 minutes ago, George 47 said:

Intona would not help especially as it uses a chip and not the preferred transformer. Transformers are not used by Intona as they are expensive , chips are cheap.

‘In the same time (maybe a bit before, not sure) Intona started to build a USB 2 isolator discretely, by processing the input USB stream within an FPGA, transceiving the content via capacitors (galvanic decoupling) into a secondary FPGA which turns this all back into USB 2. Their solution was absolutely unique because very complicated (due to the nature of the USB 2 format), and because it operated like a wire. The operating system does not see the Intona, it does not use precious USB resources - a big advantage against all other isolators with hubs included. The Intona solution also had only a few picofarad coupling between primary and secondary ensuring perfect measurements.’

You could always ask Audio Note to send a unit to Amir for measurement?

Keith

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Posted (edited)

Surprises me AN DACs don't have usb in this day and age. Yes it's purist but you can only get so far with coax (who even uses this nowadays), multiplexing into i2c, so pure... 

I guess it's for your dead cd player still 

Using physical DAC chips too like it's 2007 

Edited by kernow

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26 minutes ago, PuritéAudio said:

‘In the same time (maybe a bit before, not sure) Intona started to build a USB 2 isolator discretely, by processing the input USB stream within an FPGA, transceiving the content via capacitors (galvanic decoupling) into a secondary FPGA which turns this all back into USB 2. Their solution was absolutely unique because very complicated (due to the nature of the USB 2 format), and because it operated like a wire. The operating system does not see the Intona, it does not use precious USB resources - a big advantage against all other isolators with hubs included. The Intona solution also had only a few picofarad coupling between primary and secondary ensuring perfect measurements.’

You could always ask Audio Note to send a unit to Amir for measurement?

Keith

Keith,

Do YOU have any views on this issue?

You want AN to send a transformer to someone who has a less than a good reputation to measure whether it galvanically isolates?

Let me assure you AN have excellent measurement equipment that is at least the equal of Amir. They can even measure speakers.

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Super Dealer

Perhaps they should turn it on from time to time.

Keith

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4 minutes ago, PuritéAudio said:

Perhaps they should turn it on from time to time.

Keith

Perhaps you should turn it off now and again. Continuously slagging off other company's products is the most unprofessional behaviour I've ever seen from any so-called dealer.

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