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Tricky Harbeth P3ESR vs Kef LS50 question


DomT
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8 minutes ago, radiant red said:

I’d ignore Purite, certainly never brought anything positive into any thread other than other people’s information. Anyway, a speaker size and bass driver will always dictate the overall ability of the speaker, we all know that but you have been so use to the HL5s and that will be a hard act to follow. Is this going to be your permanent place of residence moving forward? 

Permanent residence that we have owned for 15 years but maybe if all goes well we will buy a bigger place in four years time - so it's permanent enough and the ShL5s will be in the loft.

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2 hours ago, Nopiano said:

Hi Pete, what I was saying is the graphic only showed the fundamental.  The overtones go far higher than that portrayed - as you acknowledge by mentioning the top end of human hearing. (Like you, 14kHz would be a luxury!). 
Here’s something I found from Mr Google which shows both fundamental and harmonics, and illustrates why speakers need to go higher that the 4kHz portrayed on the earlier graphic. That was the distinction I was trying, but failed, to make.  I think we are actually agreeing!
7A394707-2646-4F3C-AE5C-7D800D722D22.thumb.jpeg.bfe02f71cc8957c212bc2a049357ebda.jpeg
 

Apologies to @DomT for almost straying into music!  Heaven forbid. ;-) 

Even this appears to be incorrect as it implies that pipe organs don't have harmonics http://www.vias.org/crowhurstba/crowhurst_basic_audio_vol1_011.html

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Just now, Maestoso said:

Even this appears to be incorrect as it implies that pipe organs don't have harmonics http://www.vias.org/crowhurstba/crowhurst_basic_audio_vol1_011.html

I confess that subtlety escaped me, and hope it doesn’t detract from my main point?!

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1 hour ago, Nopiano said:

I confess that subtlety escaped me, and hope it doesn’t detract from my main point?!

I don’t think it’s saying that , the graph only goes up to 16kHz, perhaps the pipe organ can play up to 16k in which case the line is black Up to 16k and the overtones and harmonics, yellow part go beyond 16k. The black part of the bar graph, the fundamental frequencies are taking preference over the harmonics of the lower notes which they block out.

Edit - looking more closely at the Pipe organ bar it does end at about 16k, i think they've just missed off the harmonic part of it.

Edited by PeteVid
correction
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1 hour ago, radiant red said:

I’d ignore Purite, certainly never brought anything positive into any thread other than other people’s information. Anyway, a speaker size and bass driver will always dictate the overall ability of the speaker, we all know that but you have been so use to the HL5s and that will be a hard act to follow. Is this going to be your permanent place of residence moving forward? 

Just hung double doors on the lounge entrance and with the doors closed we have bass! Not as much as the SHL5 obviously but music is er musical now. Also weirdly without doing anything the speakers are different than this morning. They were in storage for 6 weeks and just been playing for four days. Maybe they will continue to get a little bit better? 

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2 hours ago, DomT said:

I give up.  I keep telling you that I have no idea how to read graphs.  I don't see the point about you ramming measurements down people's throats if you then will not help people when they ask questions.  If I knew how to read the graphs I would not need to ask you questions.  But you always seem to not want to actually make any comments and just refer people to technical info.  

To be fair, I thought Keith was pretty clear there. Ignore the complex stuff and just pay attention to the frequency response graph. Loudness is on the y axis and the output frequency is on the x axis (usually 20Hz - 20KHz, the range of human hearing), so bass is on the left. Small speakers can't physically produce the very low bass frequencies and so you will see the bass frequencies "roll off" (reduce in loudness) on the left of the graph. You can compare the measured frequency response between different speakers to see which design rolls off the bass more quickly.

Of course, how the speaker is ported and reacts to bass reinforcement from the walls in your room remains to be seen.

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I also find that the bass from the AE1 active is impressively good and deep for the cabinet size. You can also adjust bass and treble, to help when there's awkward placement. I appreciate that you've got a nice amp, thouhg, so likely don't want to go active :)

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Bass and how we perceive it, is a funny thing.

I am currently using some MA R852, which are about the same size as ATC SCM19s but with an 8" Woofer - and like the ATCs, are sealed.

When compared to the little LS50s, they appear to have less scale and impact, but the bass does go deeper. The LS50s worked well about 18" from the wall, in a large room with high ceilings. The MAs need pushed up against the wall to prevent them sounding Bass light.

Edited by CnoEvil
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I got to hear some Neat Iota Alphas today at a dealer. No home demo possible. Sounded pretty good. Anyone compared them to Harbeth P3ESR or the Kef LS50?

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I bought a BK electronics sub to supplement my P3ESRs and delighted with the results. Very satisfied. 

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I’ve not heard the Neat’s, but I did have a thread going a few years back looking for small bookshelf/standmount speakers. There may be some useful suggestions in there. 
 

I found getting side-by-side comparisons hard to come by, I think KEF LS50’s with Focal Aria 906’s were the only two I managed to get at a local dealer. The Amphion Argon series would have been up for serious consideration but they had no local dealer near me at the time.

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33 minutes ago, DomT said:

I got to hear some Neat Iota Alphas today at a dealer. No home demo possible. Sounded pretty good. Anyone compared them to Harbeth P3ESR or the Kef LS50?

Not directly, but as you’ll recall I’ve owned LS50s for a few months, and heard Iota Alphas and P3s at the same Bristol show about three years ago.  The presentation from the Neats is unusual but I was amazed how big they sounded, yet so discreet.  They used a Naim amp iirc.  I’d definitely choose them over the P3 if I had to choose for my room, but your needs are very different and you’ve tried P3s in your space already.  So, basically, you can ignore me! 

You’ve probably seen that back here in Blighty a couple of dealers regularly seem to have B stock for under a grand.

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6 hours ago, Nopiano said:

Not directly, but as you’ll recall I’ve owned LS50s for a few months, and heard Iota Alphas and P3s at the same Bristol show about three years ago.  The presentation from the Neats is unusual but I was amazed how big they sounded, yet so discreet.  They used a Naim amp iirc.  I’d definitely choose them over the P3 if I had to choose for my room, but your needs are very different and you’ve tried P3s in your space already.  So, basically, you can ignore me! 

You’ve probably seen that back here in Blighty a couple of dealers regularly seem to have B stock for under a grand.

Why should I ignore you? Am very happy to hear your suggestions. Which dealers regularly have B stock please as I didn’t know about that?

thanks

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5 hours ago, DomT said:

Why should I ignore you? Am very happy to hear your suggestions. Which dealers regularly have B stock please as I didn’t know about that?

thanks

Hi Dom, I only meant that my room and circumstances are very different, so I’d hesitate to ‘transfer’ my thoughts to your needs.  Anyway, the place I’ve mainly seen with a steady throughput of these, often advertised as ex-demo or graded but I suspect just excess stock, is in Teeside, 2ndhandhifi.  There is another place too, but the name escapes me at the moment. 

Here are their eBay details...

1C479C56-8E4B-44AC-9222-921072F8EA6D.thumb.png.269b675ca899f98e7a9e1a27bc3492fd.pngA2ACAE55-8EEB-4BD8-ABC1-F3DF38142AD1.thumb.png.1eb07e143b4e528575110a194433e927.png

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