newlash09

Active analogue crossover vs digital dsp crossover

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Just now, Tony_J said:

...but those will only give you one crossover per side...?

Ah yes, I forgot my own question when I read @Psilonaught's reply :doh:. Good to see someone is awake!

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7 minutes ago, eddie-baby said:

Interesting

Subjectively reading a subjective test :) it seemed miniDSP was the winner :D

Indeed.

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The OpenDRC on eBay is mine.  Drop me a line on here instead and of course I will happily take an offer :)

I've been using it for room correction, but I *believe* you can address each digital output separately and therefore implement a crossover purely in the digital domain, if you use a different plugin.  It'll cost me $10 to buy the new plugin from MiniDSP, but happy to give it a go if there's interest?

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2 hours ago, jamster said:

The OpenDRC on eBay is mine.  Drop me a line on here instead and of course I will happily take an offer :)

I've been using it for room correction, but I *believe* you can address each digital output separately and therefore implement a crossover purely in the digital domain, if you use a different plugin.  It'll cost me $10 to buy the new plugin from MiniDSP, but happy to give it a go if there's interest?

This won't do what @Psilonaught wants though, as it only has two independent outputs rather than the 6 required.

Edited by MartinC

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On 13/09/2020 at 11:35, Tony_J said:

Behringer sell a cheaper analogue xover with switchable gain and xover frequency:

https://www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_cx3400_super_x_pro_v2.htm?sid=64f7ca4ba52e98b97f6ae574d2142996

is this completely analogue, e.g. no AD/DA conversion???

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9 minutes ago, Psilonaught said:

is this completely analogue, e.g. no AD/DA conversion???

Yes.

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On 12/09/2020 at 20:06, newlash09 said:

Hi all :)

I've always thought that active crossovers were of the digital dsp kinds, with flexible crossover frequencies and even some kind of digital dsp at the back, like dirac etc. 

Only yesterday I came across the below active analogue crossover, where the crossover frequencies can be switched by a input card. Of course this looks more suitable to convert a passive speaker whose crossover frequencies are known, into an active version. Though it still has variable gain controls for each channel.

https://sublimeacoustic.com/products/k231-stereo-3-way-active-crossover

 So I was just wondering which of the above 2 would result in a better sound quality, if considering that I already have a DAC whose sound I love, and would like to keep its sound signature intact, in a active triamped system. 

 

Asleep at the wheel... This is going back a bit (to the last millennium) but I used to work for BSS, before they got swallowed up into the Harman group. They were perhaps one of the pioneers of active crossovers, and their kit were used extensively by the likes of Pink Floyd in the 90's for there huge rigs. I had particular experience of the FDS360 which was a stereo 3 way crossover (well not actually... more of a mono, max 4 way) with cards for setting up crossover frequencies, slopes and even a limited amount of EQ, also the FDS310 which had front panel knob adjustable crossover frequencies. I also have a more recent far eastern cheap and cheerful 2x3 way active crossover. Some of these BSS units found there was back into engineers home for "evaluation". The 310 was an unpleasant sounding unit. The 360 a bit better but had a significant fingerprint. A few years ago Serge and another had a 360 based active system at Kegworth. I recognised the fingerprint. I am sure the 360 could be tweaked a bit with some better opamps, bypassing parts of the circuit, like the balanced inputs and outputs and limiter for example, but a lot of work.

I have a Behringer DCX2496, and currently plumbed into my all valve system is a DEQ2496 (equaliser not a crossover). These are significantly better IMO, and wouldn't hesitate to recommend one over a 360, 310 or the cheap and cheerful. I also had some experience of the 926, a computer controlled analog 2 channel parametric equaliser with 6 eqs per side. that was a thing of wonder and didn't sound that bad. Its pink noise auto speaker calibration always seemed to work wonders. I can't say the same of the DEQ unfortunately, but that may be because I am not really familiar with it.

I have no experience of Dirac or mini DSPs.

In my list of back burner, may get round to it one day, is a valve active crossover, most likely first order 2 way, with some limited EQ. One day................

Edited by dave
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well I have had another couple of hours listening to the DCX and I'm afraid it isn't for me. What I didn't hear on casual listen is the digital "sheen" across the treble.  Again, laser focused ribbon tweeters clearly revealing some issues with the AD/DA process it would seem. It is really quite bad, almost shrill and very noticeable on piano and cymbals.

It reminds me of the SMSL temporary DAC that I bought a couple of months ago when my valve dac blew up.Totally unnatural treble. 

I contacted the guy who sold me the 20.1s, and who I knew was running them active, and he recommended a DBX 234XS, which he used on his. Just bought one.

I've also been told by my dac manufacturer that I can run my external clock via AES input, and not just USB, which would allow me to insert a DDRC 22D, and use a usb to AES converter for my Innuos (or buy a SHD)

Edited by Psilonaught

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46 minutes ago, Psilonaught said:

well I have had another couple of hours listening to the DCX and I'm afraid it isn't for me. What I didn't hear on casual listen is the digital "sheen" across the treble.  Again, laser focused ribbon tweeters clearly revealing some issues with the AD/DA process it would seem. It is really quite bad, almost shrill and very noticeable on piano and cymbals.

It reminds me of the SMSL temporary DAC that I bought a couple of months ago when my valve dac blew up.Totally unnatural treble. 

I contacted the guy who sold me the 20.1s, and who I knew was running them active, and he recommended a DBX 234XS, which he used on his. Just bought one.

I've also been told by my dac manufacturer that I can run my external clock via AES input, and not just USB, which would allow me to insert a DDRC 22D, and use a usb to AES converter for my Innuos (or buy a SHD)

Interesting, thanks for sharing 👍

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The guy's comment was

"It was a DBX 234XS. Seemed suspiciously cheap but it did a first rate job. 3 band stereo. Simple but effective."

This guy is a sound engineer and had a very high system, including those 20.1s, so let's see how it sounds. 

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8 minutes ago, Psilonaught said:

The guy's comment was

"It was a DBX 234XS. Seemed suspiciously cheap but it did a first rate job. 3 band stereo. Simple but effective."

This guy is a sound engineer and had a very high system, including those 20.1s, so let's see how it sounds. 

Hmm, I think you might have a quest on your hands finding something to achieve what you want. I'd be interested to know if you do find it. Please let me know. I still think the best option may be to do the tinkering before any dac, the trouble is you can't do the full active crossover thing then, just EQ basically. I'm waiting /watching to see what happens with DSPs.

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1 minute ago, eddie-baby said:

Hmm, I think you might have a quest on your hands finding something to achieve what you want. I'd be interested to know if you do find it. Please let me know. I still think the best option may be to do the tinkering before any dac, the trouble is you can't do the full active crossover thing then, just EQ basically. I'm waiting /watching to see what happens with DSPs.

The DSP bit is a distant second to sound quality, so I'm going to find a decent active crossover that is completely neutral, and then I'll investigate a dsp that goes before the dac.

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The Behringer CX3400 seems to do essentially the same job at 1/2 the price. I don't know anyone that has used one but the reviews on the Thomann site were favourable.

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33 minutes ago, Psilonaught said:

The DSP bit is a distant second to sound quality, so I'm going to find a decent active crossover that is completely neutral, and then I'll investigate a dsp that goes before the dac.

Please let me know if you do. Hopefully you share with us on here. Give me a nudge if I miss it please. 

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7 hours ago, eddie-baby said:

Please let me know if you do. Hopefully you share with us on here. Give me a nudge if I miss it please. 

They definitely do exist, it's just a question of how much you need to pay I would imagine! Hopefully the DBX is good, but otherwise I'll need to try audio sublime. 

I'll certainly report back, it arrives Friday and will need a few days burning in (I had to buy new ). 

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