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USB cable


kukulec
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6 hours ago, rabski said:

I see the point and benefit of the Eitr, but not the Wyred. The Eitr is a full USB to SPDIF converter, the Wyred is a USB to USB 'converter', but seems to serve no real purpose. It doesn't have galvanic isolation and all it does it supply the USB power, rather than taking it from the computer USB hub, and provide reclocking. Trouble is, only the very cheapest £15 type DACs use the USB for power and every DAC chip or receiver I know has its own internal clock. The Wyred 'fixes' two issues that pretty much every DAC on the planet are completely unaffected by.

I am not familiar with the Wyred but another product, the Innuos Phoenix, does similar from your description ie reclocks and sends clean power to the DAC. For sure the Phoenix does improve sound quality and so it is possible the Wyred might as well. DACs might not use the USB voltage to power them but if that USB voltage carries noise then it will get into the DAC and degrade the sound quality. Nuno at Innuos said this to me about the Phoenix reclocking and it might help for those who say there is no purpose to reclocking,

"With regard to the Phoenix reclocker the clock that's relevant for the asynchronous USB Audio protocol (emphasis on USB Audio) is related to the clock of the audio signal (PCM). This means the server itself when transmitting the audio does not have to use the internal (crappy) clock on the motherboard on the PCM stream so the DAC can decode it properly.
The PhoenixUSB reclocks the USB transmission packets (note just USB not USB Audio). It is totally unrelated to audio - this is the clock that establishes the transmission of USB data packets and has nothing to do with the Asynchronous USB Audio protocol. One thing that gives it away is the fact the PhoenixUSB works with any USB device - you can connect a hard drive or a USB stick to it if you like and that would work. It does not touch the audio signal at all, for the PhoenixUSB they're all just packets being transmitted to a destination.
The difference that a PhoenixUSB is doing is simply not polluting the DAC with noise and provide a very well timed signal with very low phase noise. It enables the DAC to work at its best
."

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7 hours ago, rabski said:

I see the point and benefit of the Eitr, but not the Wyred. The Eitr is a full USB to SPDIF converter, the Wyred is a USB to USB 'converter', but seems to serve no real purpose. It doesn't have galvanic isolation and all it does it supply the USB power, rather than taking it from the computer USB hub, and provide reclocking. Trouble is, only the very cheapest £15 type DACs use the USB for power and every DAC chip or receiver I know has its own internal clock. The Wyred 'fixes' two issues that pretty much every DAC on the planet are completely unaffected by.

I can see your logic, but speaking from personal experience and extensive testing, I found significant gains with the Uptone Regen on a laptop output (I have not actually tried the Wyred, but the principle is the same) - I now use the ISOregen ( which adds galvanic isolation) - as @Fourlegs says above, it appears to be somehow connected to noise on the input - I suggest you give it a try if you are using a direct output from a computer for streaming purposes - I'm not pretending that I fully understand all the variables in computer audio, and much of it seems counterintuitive for those of us more comfortable in the analogue domain - MH

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30 minutes ago, MotherSky said:

I can see your logic, but speaking from personal experience and extensive testing, I found significant gains with the Uptone Regen on a laptop output (I have not actually tried the Wyred, but the principle is the same) - I now use the ISOregen ( which adds galvanic isolation) - as @Fourlegs says above, it appears to be somehow connected to noise on the input - I suggest you give it a try if you are using a direct output from a computer for streaming purposes - I'm not pretending that I fully understand all the variables in computer audio, and much of it seems counterintuitive for those of us more comfortable in the analogue domain - MH

The eitr has schiit 5 gen usb ( whatever that is..) but whatever it is..it grooves!  One slight problem with the eitr is when  tablet goes into sleep mode..the eitr doesn't and it hisses and pops a but till i press play on tablet..bit annoying.. Thankfully its not too loud..so apart from that..its a very very and very good upgrade..i think if didn't have this good schiit..i wouldnt change my usb cable..i would consider changing my dac..

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Been following this thread with very keen interest. But my doubt still remains. If spdif co axial transmission is very good, why do they even provide modern streamers with a usb out

I do understand that native DSD gets passed over only via usb. Anything else is a dsd to pcm conversion.

When we talk about usb audio, apart from the usb cable itself, the implementation of dac's usb board also matters. Modern dac's having good and the latest implementations sound good on usb, with the older  ones sounding better over spdif. 

Let me relate one example...my friends borrowed my esoteric CD player when I was off for a sail. And Every one was blown with its performance as a CD/SACD player. But since so many of my friends are using macs or pc's as digital streamers via usb, they all unanimously prodded me to go for a Better dac. 

The same set of people when I played via coaxial were blown by the resolution and dynamics on offer.

So given my own experience,  I tend take the whole usb to spdif convertors, to make a difference on thise dac's whose usb implementation was not given proper thought. Why even the metrum ambre, doesn't have any usb outputs,  as they still believe it is not the optimal way to transmit digital audio. 

I could add a lot more of my own corborations with even highly acclaimed lumin streamers. But I guess I will rest my case now. Just get a steamer with spdif out and call it a day, if one can forego DSD 

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3 minutes ago, newlash09 said:

Been following this thread with very keen interest. But my doubt still remains. If spdif co axial transmission is very good, why do they even provide modern streamers with a usb out

I do understand that native DSD gets passed over only via usb. Anything else is a dsd to pcm conversion.

When we talk about usb audio, apart from the usb cable itself, the implementation of dac's usb board also matters. Modern dac's having good and the latest implementations sound good on usb, with the older  ones sounding better over spdif. 

Let me relate one example...my friends borrowed my esoteric CD player when I was off for a sail. And Every one was blown with its performance as a CD/SACD player. But since so many of my friends are using macs or pc's as digital streamers via usb, they all unanimously prodded me to go for a Better dac. 

The same set of people when I played via coaxial were blown by the resolution and dynamics on offer.

So given my own experience,  I tend take the whole usb to spdif convertors, to make a difference on thise dac's whose usb implementation was not given proper thought. Why even the metrum ambre, doesn't have any usb outputs,  as they still believe it is not the optimal way to transmit digital audio. 

I could add a lot more of my own corborations with even highly acclaimed lumin streamers. But I guess I will rest my case now. Just get a steamer with spdif out and call it a day, if one can forego DSD 

If you can find one? The eitr is astounding...my MF V link 2 is very good too but the schiit eitr is a class above it..worth looking at forums re eitr as a lot of hardened hifi buffs who scoff at things like this..buy one and happiness is found at last! I don't know how they do it...but they do it..schiit happens!

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12 minutes ago, newlash09 said:

Been following this thread with very keen interest. But my doubt still remains. If spdif co axial transmission is very good, why do they even provide modern streamers with a usb out

I do understand that native DSD gets passed over only via usb. Anything else is a dsd to pcm conversion.

When we talk about usb audio, apart from the usb cable itself, the implementation of dac's usb board also matters. Modern dac's having good and the latest implementations sound good on usb, with the older  ones sounding better over spdif. 

Let me relate one example...my friends borrowed my esoteric CD player when I was off for a sail. And Every one was blown with its performance as a CD/SACD player. But since so many of my friends are using macs or pc's as digital streamers via usb, they all unanimously prodded me to go for a Better dac. 

The same set of people when I played via coaxial were blown by the resolution and dynamics on offer.

So given my own experience,  I tend take the whole usb to spdif convertors, to make a difference on thise dac's whose usb implementation was not given proper thought. Why even the metrum ambre, doesn't have any usb outputs,  as they still believe it is not the optimal way to transmit digital audio. 

I could add a lot more of my own corborations with even highly acclaimed lumin streamers. But I guess I will rest my case now. Just get a steamer with spdif out and call it a day, if one can forego DSD 

I suspect that a good implementation might be more important than the actual format. 
 

However Innuos only use USB with their top of the line Statement. No other option. 
 

The only other thing worth mentioning is that all too often artefacts created by noise can be mistaken initially as being clarity or resolution or dynamics. 

Edited by Fourlegs
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Just now, Nearly bewildered said:

If you can find one? The eitr is astounding...my MF V link 2 is very good too but the schiit eitr is a class above it..worth looking at forums re eitr as a lot of hardened hifi buffs who scoff at things like this..buy one and happiness is found at last! I don't know how they do it...but they do it..schiit happens!

Haha...Okay sir :)

will definitely put it up on my absolutely must try kit.

I have a small one foot   lush usb cable which cost me around 400p around a year back. It comes with 4 variable connectors at either ends. Supposed to change the impedence of the cable, which gives different  sound signatures.     But havent tried it even once, once my friends told me my esoteric dac's usb input sucks. Been very happy with co axial so far. But will give it a try in conjunction with a schiit eitr then :)

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9 minutes ago, Fourlegs said:

I suspect that a good implementation might be more important than the actual format. 
 

However Innuos only use USB with their top of the line Statement. No other option. 
 

The only other thing worth mentioning is that all too often artefacts created by noise can be mistaken initially as being clarity or resolution or dynamics. 

So how do you connect the Node to a Statement as it only has optical/coax outputs?

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11 minutes ago, newlash09 said:

Haha...Okay sir :)

will definitely put it up on my absolutely must try kit.

I have a small one foot   lush usb cable which cost me around 400p around a year back. It comes with 4 variable connectors at either ends. Supposed to change the impedence of the cable, which gives different  sound signatures.     But havent tried it even once, once my friends told me my esoteric dac's usb input sucks. Been very happy with co axial so far. But will give it a try in conjunction with a schiit eitr then :)

If your happy then thats the important thing...eitr only  uses a co ax the v link uses co ax or optical ( im a fan of optical as a cheap optical cable sounds very good indeed)  it is odd how things can change the sound of a dac..the eitr going into the crystal dac on my quad cdp 2 is rather good..im now going to put it through my cyrus dac x + then into cdp 2 as a digital pre..happy days 🙂

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22 minutes ago, Nearly bewildered said:

If you can find one? The eitr is astounding...my MF V link 2 is very good too but the schiit eitr is a class above it..worth looking at forums re eitr as a lot of hardened hifi buffs who scoff at things like this..buy one and happiness is found at last! I don't know how they do it...but they do it..schiit happens!

Been thinking over it sir...just on a hunch, can you please try feeding your dac direct from a streamer with spdif output. And then see how it compared with a usb output converted to spdif please. Thay should lay  my doubts to rest .

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7 minutes ago, newlash09 said:

Been thinking over it sir...just on a hunch, can you please try feeding your dac direct from a streamer with spdif output. And then see how it compared with a usb output converted to spdif please. Thay should lay  my doubts to rest .

I dont have a streamer..just using my tablet..usb into eitr then eitr into dac x ( co ax input) then optical output to quad cdp..( the cdp2 and dac x dont have usb inputs)  the eitr or v link enable you to use older style dacs which is brilliant as you can get a older dac cheaper and use the eitr or v link and the sound...is much better than you can imagine...yes maybe only outputting 48 kHz but it's stonking! The cdp 2,  the dac x and my MF htp processor have all benefited enormously from these spdif/ usb converters...it open a whole new world of audio happy..im listening now to the dac x from eitr to cdp 2 then on to quad 909..its fab..fortunately this forum is full of hardened blatherers who scoff and then scoff some more for good measure..so you can get a eitr or a v link for not a lot of money....if they knew how good these bits of kit are? The scoffers would eat their words! Lol..

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49 minutes ago, StingRay said:

So how do you connect the Node to a Statement as it only has optical/coax outputs?

The Statement and Node are BOTH streamers. I run my Roon core on the Statement and the Statement also acts as a Squeezelite endpoint to output to the DAC in that room. I use the Node as a Roon endpoint in another room connected to the Statement via my ethernet. The Node then outputs to a Qutest dac via spdif BNC as I know a man who makes rather fine spdif cables. ^_^

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I can't understand why people spend lots of money on digital cables. It's not like analogue cables where a difference in capacitance might affect the sound ever so slightly. You are dealing with basically a stream of 1's or 0's and any cable isn't going to make the 1's any more 1 than the 1 it already is. I have tried several cable but can't tell the difference tbh. Digital audio is a different ball game. Personally i wouldn't waste my money on cables and spend money on better hardware. A better DAC with standard cables will always be better than a mediocre DAC with the best cables you can find. Just saying.........

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6 hours ago, wobbler123 said:

I can't understand why people spend lots of money on digital cables. It's not like analogue cables where a difference in capacitance might affect the sound ever so slightly. You are dealing with basically a stream of 1's or 0's and any cable isn't going to make the 1's any more 1 than the 1 it already is. I have tried several cable but can't tell the difference tbh. Digital audio is a different ball game. Personally i wouldn't waste my money on cables and spend money on better hardware. A better DAC with standard cables will always be better than a mediocre DAC with the best cables you can find. Just saying.........

Sorry Bob, but you've failing to understand that although it might be just 1's and 0's, the 'ramp' between them is most important -all the 0.** were the vast majority of information sits.

i didn't want to spend lots of money on digital cables, but once you have some decent kit and start doing some critical listening the differences are no less pronounced than in the analogue domain.

I do agree that you should spend the bulk of the money on the equipment first before splashing out on expensive cables, but sometimes.......

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Boutique cables, designed to extract cash from the gullible, purchase a certified ( usb.org) cable .

Keith

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