Griff500

PMC - Twenty5.24 vs Fact 8

Recommended Posts

Don't worry about the technology, buy what sounds best in your room.  This sort of money a weekend with them is mandatory.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, High 5 said:

Not wishing to diss that dealer, or what he says; in general I get the distinct impression that dealers are reticent to sell actives, particularly those with wireless and DSP capabilities, because they reduce their potential sales margins. I may be wrong, but I suspect they’d much rather sell you separate speakers, amp, DAC, streamer etc, because there’s more in it for them and they’ll spout all sorts of b/s to try and steer you down the route that suits them, rather than you.


5

People who sell things in any sector will usually only suggest options based on their available products and, as a business, margin is highly likely to colour the advice given. I keep this in mind when listening to the options provided.

I'm strongly leaning toward a simple system of a Bridge and SCM40A based on everything I have read thus far. I will hear these speakers later today and it will be interesting to find out what my ears tell me.

I am currently reading the thread where @TheFlash almost immediately got rid of his SCM40 to get the SCM40A. 

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Moderator
28 minutes ago, High 5 said:

Not wishing to diss that dealer, or what he says; in general I get the distinct impression that dealers are reticent to sell actives, particularly those with wireless and DSP capabilities, because they reduce their potential sales margins. I may be wrong, but I suspect they’d much rather sell you separate speakers, amp, DAC, streamer etc, because there’s more in it for them and they’ll spout all sorts of b/s to try and steer you down the route that suits them, rather than you.

Yes - there's less scope for follow-on sales too, no opportunities for box "upgrades".

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's worth mentioning that ATC themselves openly push the actives on sound quality over the passives

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If the ATC active option is too expensive, there are other alternatives.

Dynaudio Focus 30 XD ( optionally with the Connect wireless hub). Not Roon ready (yet), but a streamer with that capability can be plugged into either the Connect, or directly into one of the speakers (via coax).

The forthcoming Buchardt A700 floorstanding speakers are also ones to watch. Sonically configurable, DSP plus room correction.  Due out in the next month or two. Your musical taste may suit these.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, High 5 said:

If the ATC active option is too expensive, there are other alternatives.

Dynaudio Focus 30 XD ( optionally with the Connect wireless hub). Not Roon ready (yet), but a streamer with that capability can be plugged into either the Connect, or directly into one of the speakers (via coax).

The forthcoming Buchardt A700 floorstanding speakers are also ones to watch. Sonically configurable, DSP plus room correction.  Due out in the next month or two. Your musical taste may suit these.

Fortunately it's not too expensive, but that doesn't mean I am obligated to spend that much. ;-) 

  • Like 1
  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Super Wammer
3 minutes ago, Griff500 said:

Fortunately it's not too expensive, but that doesn't mean I am obligated to spend that much. ;-) 

If you like the presentation of the SCM40 and the practical things like size, finish, etc., then it’s almost inconceivable that you won’t find the actives to be significantly better.  I’ve not come across any passive pairing that clearly beats the actives, and definitely not at anywhere near the price. 

There’s a review of the larger Classic SCM50 series reprinted on ATCs website from Hifi Critic.  MC tests both passive and active versions a year or two apart, and with the passives the amps used were tens of thousands ££s of Naim. Some good insights in both write ups, imo. 

Enjoy the audition!

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Nopiano said:

If you like the presentation of the SCM40 and the practical things like size, finish, etc., then it’s almost inconceivable that you won’t find the actives to be significantly better.  I’ve not come across any passive pairing that clearly beats the actives, and definitely not at anywhere near the price. 

There’s a review of the larger Classic SCM50 series reprinted on ATCs website from Hifi Critic.  MC tests both passive and active versions a year or two apart, and with the passives the amps used were tens of thousands ££s of Naim. Some good insights in both write ups, imo. 

Enjoy the audition!

Cheers, I'm looking forward to it. I'll be surprised if I don't like them based on everything I've read but anything's possible. I get the feeling that the actives actually represent good value.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Tony_J said:

Yes - there's less scope for follow-on sales too, no opportunities for box "upgrades".

And less scope to sell expensive cables...

  • Haha 2
  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Griff500 said:

The dealer was suggesting passives rather than actives in order to more easily integrate a subwoofer (REL Acoustic) in the future. A subwoofer for music isn't something I had given much thought to.

There have been quite a few posts about using subs in music systems in this very thread but possibly you were dismissing them :). More people here than you think probably use one - I do B|.

The dealer will be thinking of using a 'high-level' connection to the sub, which takes the signal from the outputs of the amplifier that drives the main speakers. REL are one of a few brands that have this option. Broadly I feel REL are expensive for the performance they offer but for you they have the big advantage that you can demo one. BK Electronics sell subs that have high level connections too that offer better value but you won't be able to get a demo. 

There are real limitations to how well a subwoofer can be integrated by only using a high-level connection though. I use a minDSP SHD to integrate my subwoofer in a way that is impossible with just a sub connected via a high level connection. Specifically the SHD allows proper adjustment of time delays between the main speaker and subwoofer; applies a crossover to the main speaker output as well as the sub to minimise overlap, and also applies EQ to correct major room resonances from distorting what you hear. It also allows you to connect to the much wider range of subwoofers available that only have line level inputs. To go specifically back to your dealer's comment about choosing the passive speakers to enable the possibility to add a subwoofer, my SHD would allow me to use a subwoofer with the active SCM40s.

Just trying to make you aware of the options out there.

I do think it would be an interesting comparison to see whether you prefer passive ATC SCM40s with a subwoofer, to active ATC SCM40s without a sub. There are pros and cons of each.

Edited by MartinC
  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, MartinC said:

There have been quite a few posts about using subs in music systems in this very thread but possibly you were dismissing them :). More people here than you think probably use one - I do B|.

The dealer will be thinking of using a 'high-level' connection to the sub, which takes the signal from the outputs of the amplifier that drives the main speakers. REL are one of a few brands that have this option. Broadly I feel REL are very overpriced for the performance they offer but for you they have the big advantage that you can demo one. BK Electronics sell subs that have high level connections too that offer better value but you won't be able to get a demo. 

There are real limitations to how well a subwoofer can be integrated by only using a high-level connection though. I use a minDSP SHD to integrate my subwoofer in a way that is impossible with just a sub connected via a high level connection. Specifically the SHD allows proper adjustment of time delays between the main speaker and subwoofer; applies a crossover to the main speaker output as well as the sub to minimise overlap, and also applies EQ to correct major room resonances from distorting what you hear. It also allows you to connect to the much wider range of subwoofers available that only have line level inputs. To go specifically back to your dealer's comment about choosing the passive speakers to enable the possibility to add a subwoofer, my SHD would allow me to use a subwoofer with the active SCM40s.

Just trying to make you aware of the options out there.

I do think it would be an interesting comparison to see whether you prefer passive ATC SCM40s with a subwoofer, to active ATC SCM40s without a sub. There are pros and cons of each.

It would certainly make for an interesting comparison. Your use of the miniDSP makes more sense in this context.

I’m inclined toward the simpler system but I’ll try to let my ears be the judge of this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Griff500 said:

Your use of the miniDSP makes more sense in this context.

The key reason I bought my miniDSP SHD is because of its capability for subwoofer integration. For everything else it does there are alternatives I'd have considered. For me this was also a step from using a much cheaper miniDSP 2x4 HD so it was not an expensive leap in the dark for me. They are in no way for everyone though and it would take time and effort to get things configured well with one. It's not 'plug and play'. 

As I think I mentioned before, the ability to adjust the sound of your system with DSP could be particularly useful for you moving between different homes. There are alternatives to miniLDSPs for this though.

Edited by MartinC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Super Dealer
35 minutes ago, MartinC said:

I do think it would be an interesting comparison to see whether you prefer passive ATC SCM40s with a subwoofer, to active ATC SCM40s without a sub. There are pros and cons of each.

I have said before that I personally found the active ATC 40 to be so much better in all respects than the passive version unless one uses a very superior amplifier for the passives (the total cost of which would take one into ATC50 active tower territory). It is difficult to see how a sub could substitute for that whole bandwith superiority of the actives but I also am interested to hear the reports.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Fourlegs said:

I have said before that I personally found the active ATC 40 to be so much better in all respects than the passive version unless one uses a very superior amplifier for the passives (the total cost of which would take one into ATC50 active tower territory). It is difficult to see how a sub could substitute for that whole bandwith superiority of the actives but I also am interested to hear the reports.

I think the actives are better than the passives too but if someone particularly felt short-changed by the bass weight/extension of the actives then the passives plus sub may be of more interest. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.