Phobic

Practical solutions to identify issues and reduce the noise floor

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Super Wammer

One thing you probably consider but didn’t list above is suitable support, which might be heavy or light shelves, special tables, isolating devices, or simple things like sorbothane or silicone pieces below the feet for certain items.  Various permutations of chopping boards of wood or marble can be useful things to experiment with at low cost. 

There is a thread in the Linn club about Ikea boards and pot stands you may have seen, and a very thorough one in 2 channel about Townshend and IsoAcoustics.  Other cheap tweaks include plonking heavy items like doorstops or paperweights on any item with a lightweight case.  

Cheapest mod of all is listening after midnight, when mains has less noise and any traffic rumble mostly absent!

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3 minutes ago, Nopiano said:

One thing you probably consider but didn’t list above is suitable support, which might be heavy or light shelves, special tables, isolating devices, or simple things like sorbothane or silicone pieces below the feet for certain items.  Various permutations of chopping boards of wood or marble can be useful things to experiment with at low cost. 

There is a thread in the Linn club about Ikea boards and pot stands you may have seen, and a very thorough one in 2 channel about Townshend and IsoAcoustics.  Other cheap tweaks include plonking heavy items like doorstops or paperweights on any item with a lightweight case.  

Cheapest mod of all is listening after midnight, when mains has less noise and any traffic rumble mostly absent!

yes I'm looking at townshend's at the moment. I'm using some cheap anti vibrations pads right now, but this is certainly on the list.

I've seen a few people using heavy marble plinths, assume that's on suspended wooden floors? does it help? would you use them as well as Townshends?

good point on listening late, my kids already moan about the music when they go to bed :)

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Super Wammer
1 minute ago, Phobic said:

I've seen a few people using heavy marble plinths, assume that's on suspended wooden floors? does it help? would you use them as well as Townshends?

I’ve only ever had suspended wooden floors in our (now sold) barn conversion in Devon, but that never had Hifi in it. The closest was a Sony 5.1 DVD system!

I do use stone slabs under my ATCs, as a legacy from my Sonus Fabers that created them to protect wooden flooring.  (Old pic below from about 2011) You can see the spikes slotted into pre-drilled indents - very clever.  I liked the appearance so used them on carpet and they give a couple of inches lift too - handy as I’m tall, so my listening height is a bit above average. 

I guess I’d ask Townshend if they didn’t make a specific recommendation, but if the floor was at all uneven it would seem a good way to provide a secure footprint to put down a slab. 

CF1688F7-C56F-4985-9A75-B2339C4868C2.thumb.jpeg.abb2297737de386078e39e7fff5198ff.jpeg

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1 hour ago, voyduser said:

About a year ago I bought some Townsend Podiums for my Living Voice Auditorium speakers and they made a massive difference (no exaggeration). It was like I'd never heard what the speakers were truly capable of. I would say they, along with my record cleaning machine, have been the best value upgrades I've ever made.

Are the speakers on suspended floors?

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13 minutes ago, Phobic said:

yes I'm looking at townshend's at the moment. I'm using some cheap anti vibrations pads right now, but this is certainly on the list.

I've seen a few people using heavy marble plinths, assume that's on suspended wooden floors? does it help? would you use them as well as Townshends?

good point on listening late, my kids already moan about the music when they go to bed :)

Do you have suspended floors?

If not then coupling the speakers to the floor might be preferable.

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36 minutes ago, Nopiano said:

I’ve only ever had suspended wooden floors in our (now sold) barn conversion in Devon, but that never had Hifi in it. The closest was a Sony 5.1 DVD system!

I do use stone slabs under my ATCs, as a legacy from my Sonus Fabers that created them to protect wooden flooring.  (Old pic below from about 2011) You can see the spikes slotted into pre-drilled indents - very clever.  I liked the appearance so used them on carpet and they give a couple of inches lift too - handy as I’m tall, so my listening height is a bit above average. 

I guess I’d ask Townshend if they didn’t make a specific recommendation, but if the floor was at all uneven it would seem a good way to provide a secure footprint to put down a slab. 

CF1688F7-C56F-4985-9A75-B2339C4868C2.thumb.jpeg.abb2297737de386078e39e7fff5198ff.jpeg

You need a larger TV🤣🤣🤣🤣🤪🤪🤪

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Super Wammer
7 minutes ago, Bokke said:

You need a larger TV🤣🤣🤣🤣🤪🤪🤪

We have now. That was 2011, as I mentioned!

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To lever the thread slightly back on topic, i guess I have tried a few things related to noise floor and power.

Dedicated mains spur - did make a difference for me although my mains wiring was old. As far as I am aware a separate consumer unit is not required, a specific type of breaker is used to give a supply effectively separate to the rest of the unit - RCBO?

Getting rid of Tp-Link type plug in wi-fi extenders - the devil's work

Mains regenerator - it does seem to work except for (valve) power amps, but the impact is small and I resent it's size, noise and the extra switch on faff

Posh mains cables - I'm paranoid enough not to use kettle leads but I'll be damned if I can tell the difference

I do route my cables carefully separating signal from power but it sounds as if you are on to that already.

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2 hours ago, tuga said:

Do you have suspended floors?

If not then coupling the speakers to the floor might be preferable.

yes I have suspended floors

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4 hours ago, lostwin said:

I do route my cables carefully separating signal from power but it sounds as if you are on to that already.

I’m intrigued by this. So you shouldn’t run the power cable alongside the signal cables is that correct? 

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3 hours ago, Phobic said:

yes I have suspended floors

I've struggled with a suspended floor under my speakers for yonks.  For a long time I've had the speakers spiked onto marble slabs, the slabs resting on the carpet.  The advantage was I could slide the speakers about while only half crippling myself doing so.  But the bass was often whoomphing all over the place.  I'm planning to move, and my number one priority will be to have my system downstairs and on solid flooring.  MEANWHILE, I've been working on "marginal gains" and I have gradually managed to get the bass under control - things sound much more musical now.

I've put some soundproofing panels on the wall behind each speaker, not overdoing it but including some bass traps - they're as cheap as chips on eBay.  I put two layers of carpet tile under each speaker as an experiment.  It kind of feels counter-intuitive, and at first there was some loss of focus, but the bass was better straightaway.  There was movement when I put my hand on the top of the speakers which made me think it wasn't going to work at all - but I did notice right off was more air and also larger imaging as soon as I'd done it.  As the weeks have passed , the speakers (over 30kg each) have sunk down and now don't move at all - they've crushed the carpet tiles flat - I hadn't foreseen this at all.  Now the focus is back again and the bass is good too.  Far less whoomph than I'd put up with for so long.  It's worth reading about coupling and decoupling - get googling.  

And I've just added a simple mains conditioner.  I'm a bit of a beginner here, so I bought a used Isotek Orion.  That has improved bass definition again and has noticeably lowered the noise floor - really.  It's as if somebody has blown away a little more of the fog - particularly in the bass regions.  I'm going to upgrade my mains cables next, bit by bit.  

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7 hours ago, Ceko said:

I’m intrigued by this. So you shouldn’t run the power cable alongside the signal cables is that correct? 

more than that. its good practice to avoid running any of your cables near power cables, that means speaker cables, ethernet, and interconnecter.

if you can't avoid them crossing then at least make sure they cross at right angles to each other.

in honesty depending on your setup it can be a real ball ache to sort your cables out and keep them apart but it's worth doing. You should clean the sound up, it's quite common to get additional clarity versus having a muddy sound with the power cables in the wrong place.

at various times I've used tap or cardboard spaces to keep things apart, but just laying them in the right place works pretty well.

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7 hours ago, Don Ruperto said:

I've struggled with a suspended floor under my speakers for yonks.  For a long time I've had the speakers spiked onto marble slabs, the slabs resting on the carpet.  The advantage was I could slide the speakers about while only half crippling myself doing so.  But the bass was often whoomphing all over the place.  I'm planning to move, and my number one priority will be to have my system downstairs and on solid flooring.  MEANWHILE, I've been working on "marginal gains" and I have gradually managed to get the bass under control - things sound much more musical now.

I've put some soundproofing panels on the wall behind each speaker, not overdoing it but including some bass traps - they're as cheap as chips on eBay.  I put two layers of carpet tile under each speaker as an experiment.  It kind of feels counter-intuitive, and at first there was some loss of focus, but the bass was better straightaway.  There was movement when I put my hand on the top of the speakers which made me think it wasn't going to work at all - but I did notice right off was more air and also larger imaging as soon as I'd done it.  As the weeks have passed , the speakers (over 30kg each) have sunk down and now don't move at all - they've crushed the carpet tiles flat - I hadn't foreseen this at all.  Now the focus is back again and the bass is good too.  Far less whoomph than I'd put up with for so long.  It's worth reading about coupling and decoupling - get googling.  

And I've just added a simple mains conditioner.  I'm a bit of a beginner here, so I bought a used Isotek Orion.  That has improved bass definition again and has noticeably lowered the noise floor - really.  It's as if somebody has blown away a little more of the fog - particularly in the bass regions.  I'm going to upgrade my mains cables next, bit by bit.  

yes I'm reading more about coupling right now as it happens, I'm currently using anit vibration pads under my speakers. I'm planning on getting something like a townshend platform. What I don't know and haven't yet been able to find out is if it's best on a suspended floor to use both the platform and marble slab. wading through pages of discussion isn't popping a straight forward answer out.

i guess what I pondering is if the added weight will itself help stop the suspended floor from moving, the platform will then remove anything that the speaker creates preventing it from entering the floor.

not sure if both is overkill but can't think there'd be any negatives.

re the soundproofing, I've got sound treatment already in my room, it's 1 of the best upgrades I've ever done. Highly recommended.

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8 hours ago, Ceko said:

I’m intrigued by this. So you shouldn’t run the power cable alongside the signal cables is that correct? 

If you look at the derrièee of any old Japanese amplifier you will find line-level signals to one side, speaker-level signals in the centre and power at the other end of the back panel:

xl_pm10_n_g_re.png

That segregation continues inside the case:

wXbgKhZ.png

Edited by tuga
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35 minutes ago, Phobic said:

yes I'm reading more about coupling right now as it happens, I'm currently using anit vibration pads under my speakers. I'm planning on getting something like a townshend platform. What I don't know and haven't yet been able to find out is if it's best on a suspended floor to use both the platform and marble slab. wading through pages of discussion isn't popping a straight forward answer out.

i guess what I pondering is if the added weight will itself help stop the suspended floor from moving, the platform will then remove anything that the speaker creates preventing it from entering the floor.

not sure if both is overkill but can't think there'd be any negatives.

re the soundproofing, I've got sound treatment already in my room, it's 1 of the best upgrades I've ever done. Highly recommended.

With a Podium or similar type isolation, I wouldn't see that there would be any additional benefit to sitting this on a further platform except perhaps if your speakers have a downward firing bass driver or bass port exit at floor level (like some transmission line designs). With those type of designs, maybe there is more chance of the sonic output of the bass exciting the suspended floor that a platform could dissipate slightly?  There shouldn't be any additional control of transfer of vibrational energy as the Podium is already doing that job.

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