Griff500

DAC / Pre Amp setup for SCM40A

Recommended Posts

9 minutes ago, CnoEvil said:

:clout:

Ps. It's like being married. You're wrong, whatever you do. 

I was married, now divorced and living "in sin". Life is better! :hug:

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, MartinC said:

If enough people buy the more expensive model because they assume or perceive from listening that it is better then Auralic won't have failed as a company, even if they actually sound the same.

To your point Martin, an analogy:   

VW group owns:

VW about €1k profit per vehicle

Audi about €3K per vehicle

Porsche about €15K per vehicle

all stats 2019 https://annualreport2019.volkswagenag.com/divisions/brands-and-business-fields.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Bodgit said:

Actually I said I "haven't trawled through the 20 or so pages". A good digital pre-amp would be something to look at then.

I was sure it said something different.

Ok, in that case go back and read them! :clout:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, ChemMan said:

To your point Martin, an analogy:   

VW group owns:

VW about €1k profit per vehicle

Audi about €3K per vehicle

Porsche about €15K per vehicle

all stats 2019 https://annualreport2019.volkswagenag.com/divisions/brands-and-business-fields.html

And people haven't figured out that Porsche drive the same as VW.

Edited by Griff500
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not certain what people have figured out.

I drove the Tiguan, A3, and Macon when car shopping.   There is not enough difference to justify those profit margins.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, ChemMan said:

I'm not certain what people have figured out.

I drove the Tiguan, A3, and Macon when car shopping.   There is not enough difference to justify those profit margins.

I've driven a friend's A3 and I've had a 911 - I thought the 911 was better in every way. Porsche make a good margin on each car but they make excellent cars, so that's fine. 9_9

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Griff500 said:

I've driven a friend's A3 and I've had a 911 - I thought the 911 was better in every way. Porsche make a good margin on each car but they make excellent cars, so that's fine. 9_9

To be fair a 911 is a performance sports car and an A3 is a regular old car. Apple and oranges.    I drove three SUVs apples to apples.  I should have said Q3 not A3, but you get the point. I got the Beemer. :).  

I think Martin's point is more to the company's bottom line rather than the product.  Half the battle is convincing the customer something is better and you need it and that's why it's more expensive.  Whether it really is better I often think matters less than the perception of better.

Keith will be along shortly with testing methodology.  Get a blindfold.

Edited by ChemMan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wouldn't describe any Chord DAC as "warm" sounding. If you want a "warm" sounding DAC you need one with valves or a bit of distortion added either by design or accident. High frequency roll off filters might get you someway there but they are subtle.

Get the amp/speaker pairing right for adding "warmth" is my philosophy. 

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you want to add warmth, get a turntable. :)

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Super Wammer
2 minutes ago, Griff500 said:

And people haven't figured out that Porsche drive the same as VW.

I've driven one Porsche and several VW's (and drive an Audi). The difference in price is entirely justified by the performance of the Porsche...

Back to hifi (well, someone has to): I have thought for some time that there is (or may be, as a general rule, which therefore is wrong) more like a logarithmic relationship between price and performance than a linear one: if you really want to hear twice the sound quality, you'd need to spend ten times as much. That's not a recommendation by the way, it's just to suggest that if anyone thinks spending twice as much should deliver twice the sound quality, their hopes are likely to be dashed. I suspect this is why so many audiophiles with expensive setups express surprised satisfaction at the sound of a friend's budget system they've just heard.

I have a Metrum Onyx DAC in Kendal and a Metrum Pavane Level 3 here in Leics. The Pavane retails at 3x the Onyx; it sounds better but probably 50% better not 200% better. I suspect that, like the Auralics, there is only so much you can do with a power supply, a chassis and some other tweaks to improve SQ. I've heard various Chord DACs at Nick's place and sound-per-pound does seem to diminish as you move up the line.

There are of course exceptions (perhaps everything is an exception!) and I have found these in the analogue domain. eg:

  • the active ATC SCM40A costs twice the passive SCM40 and sounds IMHO twice as good... but we're not really comparing similar products here as the active introduces six amplifiers and a completely different type of crossover.
    • when comparing passive speakers from ProAc, I've spent substantially more to upgrade for diminishing (in sound-per-pound terms) improvements in SQ...but always been happy to do so
  • the Arcam A49 cost nearly 3 times the A39 and sounds twice as good
  • the Rega Apheta 2 low output MC cart costs over twice as much as my Dynavector 10x5 high output MC but sounds twice as good

Hope this confuses.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, ChemMan said:

To be fair a 911 is a performance sports car and an A3 is a regular old car. Apple and oranges.    I drove three SUVs apples to apples.  I should have said Q3 not A3, but you get the point. I got the Beemer. :).  

I think Martin's point is more to the company's bottom line rather than the product.  Half the battle is convincing the customer something is better and you need it and that's why it's more expensive.  Whether it really is better I often think matters less than the perception of better.

Keith will be along shortly with testing methodology.  Get a blindfold.

True, but that is only half the battle. If I am happy with what I’m getting for my money then I’m really not concerned with how much margin they make from different models in their range.

Martin’s point was more like saying an A3 might drive like an RS3 rather than comparing similar models from different manufacturers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Super Wammer
34 minutes ago, ChemMan said:

I'm not certain what people have figured out.

I drove the Tiguan, A3, and Macon when car shopping.   There is not enough difference to justify those profit margins.

The "Porsche" you drove was a cheap knock-off. Porsche focus their development efforts on the Macan. The Macon must be a special model made in small quantities for the French market only. Apparently it is much better in the President trim.

For "There is not enough difference to justify those profit margins" you might want to substitute "There was not enough difference for me to justify those profit margins". There are, I would guess, tens of thousands of customers around the world who would make a different value judgement.

Which, maybe, brings us neatly back to hifi!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Super Wammer
15 minutes ago, ChemMan said:

I'm with you.

And I'm with him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Super Dealer
16 minutes ago, TheFlash said:

I've heard various Chord DACs at Nick's place and sound-per-pound does seem to diminish as you move up the line.

That of course is not just a Chord thing and I’m sure you did not mean to imply that it was and yet you deftly did just that. xD 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.