Griff500

DAC / Pre Amp setup for SCM40A

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53 minutes ago, PuritéAudio said:

The m-scaler does nothing

What DACs did you try the M-Scaler with? 

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22 minutes ago, Griff500 said:

.................For streaming, what would Roon give me that Lightning DS doesn't?

I may have it wrong, but the way I see it, is that if your streamer has your preferred streaming service on-board (e.g. Tidal or Qobuz)...and you don't intend to go to other sources for your music, then there's little to be gained by having Roon, other than the extremely good UI.

If the streamer's native app is well designed and user friendly (e.g. Lightning DS or BluOS etc,)...and allows you to stream from your preferred streaming service and access locally stored music (downloads and rips), then again there may be little advantage to be gained by having Roon.

However, if you frequently stream music from several different services and mix that in with playing locally stored content, then Roon brings that all together under one interface. It might also be a solution and alternative to a poor native app, or serve as an upgrade to a half decent one.

As I say, I might have this wrong.

I haven't used Roon, but I'm teetering on the edge of activating a 2 month free trial to find out if the glowing reports...and the hype...is borne out by personal experience. It's an awful lot of shekels  though if it turns out to be a nice to have, rather than a must have. Plus, I can see it being a slippery slope with the next step being the temptation to buy a Nucleus.

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13 minutes ago, High 5 said:

I may have it wrong, but the way I see it, is that if your streamer has your preferred streaming service on-board (e.g. Tidal or Qobuz)...and you don't intend to go to other sources for your music, then there's little to be gained by having Roon, other than the extremely good UI.

If the streamer's native app is well designed and user friendly (e.g. Lightning DS or BluOS etc,)...and allows you to stream from your preferred streaming service and access locally stored music (downloads and rips), then again there may be little advantage to be gained by having Roon.

However, if you frequently stream music from several different services and mix that in with playing locally stored content, then Roon brings that all together under one interface. It might also be a solution and alternative to a poor native app, or serve as an upgrade to a half decent one.

As I say, I might have this wrong.

I haven't used Roon, but I'm teetering on the edge of activating a 2 month free trial to find out if the glowing reports...and the hype...is borne out by personal experience. It's an awful lot of shekels  though if it turns out to be a nice to have, rather than a must have. Plus, I can see it being a slippery slope with the next step being the temptation to buy a Nucleus.

That was my understanding and it doesn't seem like anything I need at the moment.

The Auralic Vega G2 is 'a Roon Ready endpoint'. A brief search seems to also indicate that my Aries Mini can be used with Roon.

So I've got that going for me...

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Super Dealer
8 hours ago, PuritéAudio said:

1)  https://www.stereophile.com/content/chord-electronics-hugo-m-scaler-upsampling-digital-processor-measurements

2) a) The m-scaler does nothing, b) there is discussion about it on ASR.

3) I like Roon software.

Keith

1) Thanks for the Stereophile review of the Mscaler. Those measurements do not show or support your claim that the "mscaler does nothing", they merely show that the person measuring was trying to measure the wrong thing. That is the problem with some measurements.

2) a) That is a fairly bold statement to put in print. Unfortunately for you, the very same Stereophile article says about the Mscaler,

"Conclusions
As David Rich, then with The Audio Critic, wrote in the 1990s, "in the next century, all audiophiles will be listening to will be different digital filters." Chord's Hugo M Scaler illustrates Dr. Rich's point: It replaces the various reconstruction filters used in other manufacturers' DACs with Rob Watts's enormously long WTA filter. That filter does sound superb, and, as a bonus—in addition to upgrading the sounds of older DACs—the M Scaler adds a USB input with Roon compatibility to DACs that don't have one, like my Levinson. At $4795, the M Scaler is relatively expensive; I recommend you audition the M Scaler with your own DAC before getting out the credit card. But "[improve] the recreation of the original music signal," as Chord claims, the M Scaler definitely did, with all three D/A processors I tried."

Keith, just how long you get get away with trying to manipulate the truth by telling your own lies in a misguided attempt (presumably) to sell other DACs in your dealership is a mystery to me. If any DAC manufacturer placed adverts which lied about their competitors they would get short shrift from the advertising standards authority. As a dealer selling DACs and lying about competitors products in a forum is surely worth of similar short shrift. It is however unlikely to win you extra sales.

2) b) I have had a look. That is not discussion. It is childish drivel based on a lack of knowledge. Chord will rightly not even be bothered to read it.

3) That is nice for you.

Edited by Fourlegs
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Super Dealer

If a component alters the sound then the measurements change, no change no sound difference it really is that simple, if you compared unsighted you would realise this of course you don’t preferring to swallow without questioning the marketing guff.

@ griffo  a simple laptop can play everything including BBC Sounds , You Tube , Quboz, Tidal,Spotify etc and in terms of sound quality played through the same dac it will be indistinguishable.

Keith

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8 hours ago, PuritéAudio said:

I don’t sell a £9000 dac I tried it, compared it couldn’t hear any difference, not that I really expected to.

When choosing a ‘streamer’ ( stripped down computer) make sure it is capable of playing everything you want it to play, the interface is the most important component .

Keith

You are one of those.

How do you stream the music from a laptop?

the interface may well be different on a streamer compared to a laptop. 

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25 minutes ago, PuritéAudio said:

If a component alters the sound then the measurements change, no change no sound difference it really is that simple, if you compared unsighted you would realise this of course you don’t preferring to swallow without questioning the marketing guff.

@ griffo  a simple laptop can play everything including BBC Sounds , You Tube , Quboz, Tidal,Spotify etc and in terms of sound quality played through the same dac it will be indistinguishable.

Keith

The measurements do change but then they say they are inaudible. The measurements maybe measuring the wrong things or may not be good enough. 

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Super Dealer
11 minutes ago, StingRay said:

The measurements do change but then they say they are inaudible. The measurements maybe measuring the wrong things or may not be good enough. 

Baloney.

Keith

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20 minutes ago, StingRay said:

the interface may well be different on a streamer compared to a laptop. 

Indeed but I'm doubtful there are many situations where the streamer would have a better interface, and very often it will be inferior. Not that I'd want to use a laptop wired into my hifi as the music source. I did that for a while and I'm much happier with a streamer.

Regarding Roon I agree that to me it's major appeal seems to be for people who want to use one or more streaming services in conjunction with locally stored files. It does though have many fans which is why I mentioned it as an option to investigate. This wasn't why I mentioned Roon but for info. it does also provide some EQ functionality. I think a downside with Roon is you may need an additional bit of hardware to act as the 'Core' though. The discussion was about UIs and Roon generally seems to have the reputation of being the best, hence it being mentioned :).

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Super Dealer
9 hours ago, PuritéAudio said:

I don’t sell a £9000 dac

Technically you are correct, but you do sell an £8,999  DAC unless Mola Mola have dumped you. I attach another dealers pricing as you do not appear to have any pricing on your web site.

2045583200_Screenshot2020-10-23at08_33_08.thumb.png.ae1b7568767f043006bad6f93f20608f.png

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Super Dealer
1 hour ago, PuritéAudio said:

@ griffo  a simple laptop can play everything including BBC Sounds , You Tube , Quboz, Tidal,Spotify etc and in terms of sound quality played through the same dac it will be indistinguishable.

This your opinion but which is not shared by all people.

I do however agree that some laptops, but not all, can sound very good when they are used on battery only (ie not connected to mains) and connected via optical cable.

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Super Wammer

On streaming interfaces: when seeking to move on from Squeezebox/Logitech Media Server with which I used the iPeng app, I settled on the Bluesound Node2i after having narrowed the search to this and Auralic. This was purely based on extensive research of other people’s views, including folk who had tried both, and not on trying both myself.

The neat Node 2i would struggle to offend even the most sensitive eyes and the app is excellent if not perfect. I use an external linear PSU and external DAC, both of which are clearly audible improvements.

EDIT: and I use mine to stream from NAS and Tidal.

Edited by TheFlash
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10 hours ago, PuritéAudio said:

The m-scaler does nothing, there is discussion about it on ASR.

That's not really a discussion.

9 hours ago, Griff500 said:

What DACs did you try the M-Scaler with? 

I am still interested to know what DACs you have heard it with, or is your opinion based on the ASR 'discussion'?

1 hour ago, PuritéAudio said:

@ griffo  a simple laptop can play everything including BBC Sounds , You Tube , Quboz, Tidal,Spotify etc and in terms of sound quality played through the same dac it will be indistinguishable.

Keith

I really don't want a laptop and if it's indistinguishable then the streamer will do the job just fine.

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Super Dealer

Griff, best you hear it for yourself and make up your own mind. I have heard it with Chord Qutest, TT2 and Dave.

You might as well flog a dead horse as ask K which DACs he has heard it with. I may be proved wrong but I very much doubt that he has had any demo of the Mscaler.

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Super Dealer
11 minutes ago, Griff500 said:

That's not really a discussion.

I am still interested to know what DACs you have heard it with, or is your opinion based on the ASR 'discussion'?

I really don't want a laptop and if it's indistinguishable then the streamer will do the job just fine.

I have only heard the ‘dave’ and m-scaler at a clients, there isn’t really a discussion because a high percentage of contributors at ASR actually understand the technology, understand measurements and how more importantly  they correlate to sound quality.

Re streamers I am not suggesting you use a laptop although it is by far the most versatile, but that there  will be no difference in SQ between a £30 Pi or a £12k or whatever ‘streamer’ if both connected to the same properly engineered dac.

Before I started PA I was just like everyone here, believed everything the dealer/manufacturer told me, I didn’t consider for a moment that they wouldn’t be telling the truth.

Keith

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