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Subwoofers for Music?


MartinC

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Just now, jon said:

I've been planning to get one of these miniDSP 2x4s to run from a computer. No issues with using it as a preamp in that context? Thanks!

If it's not too cheeky to ask, let me know if you end up looking to sell it - planning to buy one of these, or similar, soon.

Note there is both a 2x4 HD and the older/cheaper 2x4. I would struggle to recommend anyone buys the latter as I've read lots of people unhappy with its performance.

I still use my 2x4 HD for movies and so won't be selling it I'm afraid.

I never ran my 2x4 HD with a computer as an audio source, other than when sending it test signals from REW. It should work OK though I think but to see volume etc you would specifically have to open the miniDSP application ('plugin') to do so each time you started the computer.

For info. there is a miniDSP owners thread here if you have more questions:

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5 minutes ago, MartinC said:

Note there is both a 2x4 HD and the older/cheaper 2x4. I would struggle to recommend anyone buys the latter as I've read lots of people unhappy with its performance.

I still use my 2x4 HD for movies and so won't be selling it I'm afraid.

I never ran my 2x4 HD with a computer as an audio source, other than when sending it test signals from REW. It should work OK though I think but to see volume etc you would specifically have to open the miniDSP application ('plugin') to do so each time you started the computer.

For info. there is a miniDSP owners thread here if you have more questions:

Thanks!

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2 hours ago, PuritéAudio said:

It is a bit of a faff far easier to choose, full-range,  phase coherent/ perfect impulse/group delay loudspeakers in the first instance.

Keith

Advertising again and making snide comments about other posters choice of speaker. >:(

The D&D implied in this comment needed, imo in my room, a sub and the Kiis actually brought out a bass module because the “full-range” top unit wasn’t good enough on its own.

For most people genuinely full range high quality speakers are very expensive, the bottom couple of octaves cost! As such using a sub, well integrated, is an affordable solution. Unfortunately vey low, high quality bass involves using a big unit, using a sub allows people to get that, usually, large box out of the position where the speakers produce the most realistic illusion of the original sound. 

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2 hours ago, PuritéAudio said:

Subs and speaker should always be placed close to the front wall, contemporary designs allow for this.

Keith

Absolute nonsense and designed to lead readers to the type of speaker you sell.

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11 minutes ago, Camverton said:

Absolute nonsense and designed to lead readers to the type of speaker you sell.

Malcs your ignorance is showing again, I hope now you have a clearer idea  of the relationship between phase, delay and frequency you just have to read up on speaker placement.

I would start with Neumann or Genelec both have informative guides.

Keith

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1 minute ago, PuritéAudio said:

Malcs your ignorance is showing again, I hope now you have a clearer idea  of the relationship between phase, delay and frequency you just have to read up on speaker placement.

I would start with Neumann or Genelec both have informative guides.

Keith

You’re just trying to be offensive again and cause arguments contrary to the dealer AUP which you are supposed to abide by, back on ignore where you belong.

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Yeah, me too. Started so well and then thickened up like overdone gravy......................

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 20/10/2020 at 13:27, Phobic said:

1 thing that I don't think we've covered is how to pair the right sub with your speakers and at what point is it best to have the crossover.

Assume looking at speaker performance and where things start to drop off is a factor versus where the sub performs best.

how much does the room and sub location also play into this choice?

as a bad example to illustrate the question - I guess you want to avoid having the cross over point below the room gain threshold as it will make it more difficult to manage the overall boom effect when you have both the sub and mains contributing. Bad example because I'm not sure pragmatically if this will be an issue for most of us even in our relatively small rooms.

I have no personal experience of subs so far. Except for a small 8 inch Qacoustics sub tucked into the corner of my living room for HT duties.

But I read a very interesting debate today on svs pb2000 sub in my local forums. Apparently most of the users of the said sub are of the opinion, that due to a single 12 inch driver in a sealed cabinet. The sub can either go deep into low bass in the 20hz region or it can do proper mid bass. But not both, depending on how the maker has tuned it. And svs choose deeper low end.

The lack of mid bass in the 60 to 80hz region makes the impact missing. So the forum member eventually upgraded to some massive jbl pro 15 inchers and is very happy now. 

So probably depending on where we want to place the crossover into the sub, the size of the sub driver would vary. With bigger drivers subs being more flexible in this regards.

But I could be completely wrong at my above inference sir :)

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7 minutes ago, newlash09 said:

I have no personal experience of subs so far. Except for a small 8 inch Qacoustics sub tucked into the corner of my living room for HT duties.

But I read a very interesting debate today on svs pb2000 sub in my local forums. Apparently most of the users of the said sub are of the opinion, that due to a single 12 inch driver in a sealed cabinet. The sub can either go deep into low bass in the 20hz region or it can do proper mid bass. But not both, depending on how the maker has tuned it. And svs choose deeper low end.

The lack of mid bass in the 60 to 80hz region makes the impact missing. So the forum member eventually upgraded to some massive jbl pro 15 inchers and is very happy now. 

So probably depending on where we want to place the crossover into the sub, the size of the sub driver would vary. With bigger drivers subs being more flexible in this regards.

But I could be completely wrong at my above inference sir :)

The PB2000 is actually a ported sub - that's what the 'P' stands for :). The sealed model is the SB2000. 

As for the rest, well, both will definitely be capable of higher peak outputs in the 60-80 Hz range than they will be below 20 Hz. Where tuning could make a difference I suppose is when there is simultaneously sound below 20 Hz and at 60-80 Hz. The amp and driver excursion have limits, and if some of the capability is being used below 20 Hz there will be less left for higher frequencies. There is rarely musical content below 20 Hz though, or even 30 Hz.

My hunch is that it was a room mode associated dip that made the person in question feel output in the 60-80 Hz range was lacking. Unless they just wanted to listen REALLY loud!

Not that subs with 15" drivers are a bad thing. I have one B|.

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13 minutes ago, MartinC said:

The PB2000 is actually a ported sub - that's what the 'P' stands for :). The sealed model is the SB2000. 

As for the rest, well, both will definitely be capable of higher peak outputs in the 60-80 Hz range than they will be below 20 Hz. Where tuning could make a difference I suppose is when there is simultaneously sound below 20 Hz and at 60-80 Hz. The amp and driver excursion have limits, and if some of the capability is being used below 20 Hz there will be less left for higher frequencies. There is rarely musical content below 20 Hz though, or even 30 Hz.

My hunch is that it was a room mode associated dip that made the person in question feel output in the 60-80 Hz range was lacking. Unless they just wanted to listen REALLY loud!

Not that subs with 15" drivers are a bad thing. I have one B|.

Oops you are right sir :D

sorry my bad :) pb2000 is definitely a ported box. The actual debate was from other loyal users of pb2000, claiming it to be room induced nulls / wrong placement / bad calibration.  But the argument was won when the poster, placed the new jbl pro sub, in the same exact location as the previous pb2000 sub. And reported all round gain in sound quality.

The jbl he replaced with was a jbl 4642a, which Iam again mistaken at are with 18 inch drivers.

I've been doing my research in my off times, and increasingly leaning towards Rythmik FVX 15. For music iam finding them being heavily recommended in the budget iam looking at. But adding them on top of my present speakers , will make the speakers 7.5 ft tall each :D

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4 minutes ago, newlash09 said:

Oops you are right sir :D

sorry my bad :) pb2000 is definitely a ported box. The actual debate was from other loyal users of pb2000, claiming it to be room induced nulls / wrong placement / bad calibration.  But the argument was won when the poster, placed the new jbl pro sub, in the same exact location as the previous pb2000 sub. And reported all round gain in sound quality.

The jbl he replaced with was a jbl 4642a, which Iam again mistaken at are with 18 inch drivers.

I'm still unconvinced :). Subs that are different sizes and shapes can't place the centers of the drivers at the same location and this is what matters. Plus there is no doubt that the JBL will go louder!

4 minutes ago, newlash09 said:

I've been doing my research in my off times, and increasingly leaning towards Rythmik FVX 15. For music iam finding them being heavily recommended in the budget iam looking at. But adding them on top of my present speakers , will make the speakers 7.5 ft tall each :D

I think the bit in bold was just a joke but please don't tie yourself to putting subs in the same locations as your main speakers. Don't your main speakers have pretty big drivers on their own anyway?

Rythmik have a great reputation. Sadly there isn't a UK distributer or I'd probably own one. There is in India though, as you probably know already!

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23 minutes ago, MartinC said:

I'm still unconvinced :). Subs that are different sizes and shapes can't place the centers of the drivers at the same location and this is what matters. Plus there is no doubt that the JBL will go louder!

I think the bit in bold was just a joke but please don't tie yourself to putting subs in the same locations as your main speakers. Don't your main speakers have pretty big drivers on their own anyway?

Rythmik have a great reputation. Sadly there isn't a UK distributer or I'd probably own one. There is in India though, as you probably know already!

Thanks for the above sir :)

As you might be aware, I have a huge bass null between 60 to 80 Hz, which Iam actually feeling on some tracks. And I believe it to be mainly due to bass driver to  ceiling height induced nulls. When I listen to Indian classical music, a traditional Indian drum instrument called tabla, has deep slam in the  60 to 80hz region. This usually is supposed to hit deep in the chest, but what I have is a vage representation of the same, with the slam completely missing.

So started this hunt for a sub. As correctly mentioned the present speakers have 10 inch bass drivers mounted in a  transmission line. And by themselves they are awesome. And ideally I should be placing the sub some place where this bass null gets cancelled. But I don't have floor space as it is my daughter's bedroom. So my plan, as crazy as it sounds, was to mount my subs on fashionable looking  stands, so that the stand would enclose my speakers, and not touch it physically. And the stand would be such that I could pivot the driver of the subs,  firing direction in a vertical line. And I would line up the gap between the sub stand and speaker with absorption pads on the sides and rear, so as to absorb as much mid range and treble frequencies being radiated  to the rear and side ways as possible. ( And maybe just escape having to treat my room ).

As I listen with a heavy toe in, this might just improve my imaging, as it will be freed from a lot of side and rear wall reflections.   Iam sure it sounds really crazy :D. But that's me at my ingenious best at times :D

Edited by newlash09
Lots of grammar corrections
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Thank God...finally managed to post a small pic today :D

My plan is to accomplish something like in  the below pic sir :)

The wooden curved side arms we see in the pic, will be stands that I will get built. And then place the sub on top of my  speakers on this stand. But the stand will not physically touch the speakers to avoid sub vibrations crawling into the main speakers. And I will leave a good 4 inch gap between the wooden stand and speakers, so that I can line it up with absorbent material on the sides and rear. Probably new audio einstein in the making here :D or completely mad :D

images (1).jpeg

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60-80 Hz is very important for loads of music :).

Varying subwoofer height as well a position in the other two dimensions can definitely be helpful but personally I really wouldn't tie yourself to your subs having to be in the same location as your speakers in the way you are planning. Unless you feel you couldn't put them anywhere else? The chances are high that simpler options would sound better I think...

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