TheFlash 3,533 Super Wammer Posted November 22, 2020 4 minutes ago, Lord J said: Ive had the Qutest Dac and the Lumin, Auralic, Limetree and others at home for dems. All sounded ok but nothing wanted me to part with my money. Which models? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lord J 39 Posted November 22, 2020 1 hour ago, TheFlash said: Which models? Lumin D1 - nice case smooth sound, lovely casework but ultimately, Meh. Auralic Aries 1 - not very nice at all, to my ears.Ok build. Lindmann Limetree audio network player - Nice sound, awful and I mean awful operating software. It was advertised as having Spotify built in - It didn’t, even though it was advertised as such(I don’t want a hi res debate). Apparently it now has, 18 months later. £895 for a fancy Apple TV sized box. I had others which disappointed which is why I took a punt on the Bluesound with an outboard Dac. I was immediately impressed and drum roll... ... it just worked. And it worked all the time. So I thought, Ok, let’s see how to get the best out of this to a sensible price point. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ProJules 76 Posted November 22, 2020 (edited) Bluesound Node 21 convert here.. Just got one (prior I was running of my Macbook Pro @192k USB out to Mutec USB3+USB to Grace Designs M903 DAC. The Mutec MC3+ USB added a lot more edge / punch / transients to pop rock drums & depth to reverb) ============= My setup as of this weekend Bluesound Node 2i (Playing Amazon Music HD) Optical out to Mutec MC3+ USB - AES out to Grace M903 DAC / Headphone amp / self powered speaker volume controller ADAM Artist series 5X + Sub self powered speakers =========== As the Bluesound’s outputs are always all on - I am able to do an A/B/C test by toggling between them on the Grace Mode A) Coax direct to Grace Designs DAC Mode B) Optical to Mutec reclocker feeding Grace DAC Mode C) Analog RCA outs of Node 2i to analog RCA input of Grace (bypassing Grace DAC just using it for volume control) Mode B (Mutec reclocking) is the winner - the reclocking benefits reverb and any swirling sounds spread across left and right (like organ or synths) .. When reclocked - you get more 'magical' (?) reverb width, depth and space. (My 10 year old son also preferred it) Mode A sounds flatter, less wide, less euphonic / less 'magical' than Mode B Mode C Similar to Mode A (flatter, less wide, less euphonic / less 'magical' than Mode B) but a little ‘crisper’ or ‘thinner’ (it was also a little louder so I had to adjust each time to get a fair match) Notes: Coax and optical both carried 192k via SPDIF and switched between 192k to 96k and 44.1 dependant on material played. Neither were high end cables. The Mutec had a more profound effect on my MacBook Pro USB signal. So I can only deduce that there is more scope to ‘Cheer up’ computer USB signal than the Node 2i’s (better?) digital output? For my tests I didn’t audition optical vs coax cables - I relied on them as carrying ‘the same signal’. I use an Ifi Audio Powerstation mains power conditioner My next step is to add a master wordclock device. Before the year is out I expect to have a Mutec REF10 SE120 to audition at home. I will post my thoughts about it here. Has anyone here tried one? Edited November 22, 2020 by ProJules 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Griff500 349 Posted November 22, 2020 2 hours ago, Lord J said: Hello. There are other dacs in the world other than Chord. Now you tell me... 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lord J 39 Posted November 22, 2020 3 hours ago, ProJules said: Bluesound Node 21 convert here.. Just got one (prior I was running of my Macbook Pro @192k USB out to Mutec USB3+USB to Grace Designs M903 DAC. The Mutec MC3+ USB added a lot more edge / punch / transients to pop rock drums & depth to reverb) ============= My setup as of this weekend Bluesound Node 2i (Playing Amazon Music HD) Optical out to Mutec MC3+ USB - AES out to Grace M903 DAC / Headphone amp / self powered speaker volume controller ADAM Artist series 5X + Sub self powered speakers =========== As the Bluesound’s outputs are always all on - I am able to do an A/B/C test by toggling between them on the Grace Mode A) Coax direct to Grace Designs DAC Mode B) Optical to Mutec reclocker feeding Grace DAC Mode C) Analog RCA outs of Node 2i to analog RCA input of Grace (bypassing Grace DAC just using it for volume control) Mode B (Mutec reclocking) is the winner - the reclocking benefits reverb and any swirling sounds spread across left and right (like organ or synths) .. When reclocked - you get more 'magical' (?) reverb width, depth and space. (My 10 year old son also preferred it) Mode A sounds flatter, less wide, less euphonic / less 'magical' than Mode B Mode C Similar to Mode A (flatter, less wide, less euphonic / less 'magical' than Mode B) but a little ‘crisper’ or ‘thinner’ (it was also a little louder so I had to adjust each time to get a fair match) Notes: Coax and optical both carried 192k via SPDIF and switched between 192k to 96k and 44.1 dependant on material played. Neither were high end cables. The Mutec had a more profound effect on my MacBook Pro USB signal. So I can only deduce that there is more scope to ‘Cheer up’ computer USB signal than the Node 2i’s (better?) digital output? For my tests I didn’t audition optical vs coax cables - I relied on them as carrying ‘the same signal’. I use an Ifi Audio Powerstation mains power conditioner My next step is to add a master wordclock device. Before the year is out I expect to have a Mutec REF10 SE120 to audition at home. I will post my thoughts about it here. Has anyone here tried one? I personally haven’t tried the Ref se120. Can I make the point that optical isn’t optimal and Digital cables make a huge difference, so that’s an ave you should explore. Cheers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ProJules 76 Posted November 22, 2020 So coax is better than optical? Will try it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ProJules 76 Posted November 22, 2020 What's a good (budget) coax to get? Can't be dealing with paying over £100. Thanks. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheFlash 3,533 Super Wammer Posted November 22, 2020 5 minutes ago, ProJules said: What's a good (budget) coax to get? Can't be dealing with paying over £100. Thanks. Mark Grant Audio. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MotherSky 257 Posted November 22, 2020 5 minutes ago, ProJules said: What's a good (budget) coax to get? Can't be dealing with paying over £100. Thanks. Ecosse "Producer" is an excellent budget option 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ProJules 76 Posted November 22, 2020 Thanks i think I will look out for black Friday offers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StingRay 1,668 Posted November 22, 2020 17 minutes ago, ProJules said: Thanks i think I will look out for black Friday offers. Those cables are not expensive, Mark Grant are about £28 for 1m, they have a 30 day return if you are not satisfied with them. The Ecosse is about £20 for 1 metre. i have the Mark Grant coaxial but I did not know about the Ecosse when I bought it. i would not buy pricey “HiFi” cables. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lord J 39 Posted November 22, 2020 Mmm. I’m not saying the cable advice is wrong, as I haven’t heard either of the ones mentioned. They sound excellent value for money. It’s all down to the system you’re using, but in my view cables can make or break a system. Considering you may potentially be spending £4000 on word clocking and reclocking why would you not consider more expensive digital cables? Have you ever given one a go? In my experience, I have heard relatively budget systems come alive with cables that are more expensive than the components. Sounds mad but it’s true. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheFlash 3,533 Super Wammer Posted November 22, 2020 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Lord J said: Mmm. I’m not saying the cable advice is wrong, as I haven’t heard either of the ones mentioned. They sound excellent value for money. It’s all down to the system you’re using, but in my view cables can make or break a system. Considering you may potentially be spending £4000 on word clocking and reclocking why would you not consider more expensive digital cables? Have you ever given one a go? In my experience, I have heard relatively budget systems come alive with cables that are more expensive than the components. Sounds mad but it’s true. In my view they can't. I could hardly be painted with the "wire is wire" brush but I'm in a very different place from you here, based on both theory/science and experience/practice. The cheapest dodgy Poundland (other purveyors of budget cableness are available) cables might break a system; nothing else will. Make sure it has enough copper to carry the current, consider whether you want it shielded or not and let it do its job. I am happy to debate my outrageously dogmatic and uninformed position elsewhere, but not here please. Edited November 22, 2020 by TheFlash Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PuritéAudio 1,374 Super Dealer Posted November 22, 2020 2 minutes ago, TheFlash said: In my view they can't. I could hardly be painted with the "wire is wire" brush but I'm in a very different place from you here, based on both theory/science and experience/practice. The cheapest dodgy Poundland (other purveyors of budget cableness are available) cables might break a system; nothing else will. Make sure it has enough copper to carry the current, consider whether you want it shielded or not and let it do its job. I am happy to debate my outrageously dogmatic and uninformed position elsewhere, but not here please. Get you, you.....objectivist! Keith Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
