TheFlash

My digital world: reclocking experiences

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Super Wammer
4 minutes ago, PuritéAudio said:

Get you, you.....objectivist!

Keith

I wouldn't go quite that far... don't go asking what size "Keith was right all along" T-shirt I need.

I just think the idea of a cable making or breaking a system is bit far-fetched... unless, as you might say, it's packed with dodgily designed and/or poorly executed components. Yes, some cables change the sound. No, I don't have my system cabled up with Black & Decker mains wire. There are a few simple parameters in a decent cable and that's it.

Be reassured that we still inhabit different worlds... and mine has music in it!

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1 hour ago, TheFlash said:

I wouldn't go quite that far... don't go asking what size "Keith was right all along" T-shirt I need.

I just think the idea of a cable making or breaking a system is bit far-fetched... unless, as you might say, it's packed with dodgily designed and/or poorly executed components. Yes, some cables change the sound. No, I don't have my system cabled up with Black & Decker mains wire. There are a few simple parameters in a decent cable and that's it.

Be reassured that we still inhabit different worlds... and mine has music in it!

Oh, I’m not entirely sure who that comment is aimed at?

This is an open HiFi forum isn’t it?

My passion is music and HiFi is the conduit to it. I cannot see why that should be questioned?

I’m aware we are going off topic but a digital cable is pertinent to ones digital reclocking experience. 

Maybe I’m fortunate. I have had the opportunity to listen to many different cables, some very expensive. Some, have ended up in my system, some have not.

For the record, my digital cable exceeds  the price of the actual Node 2i, and by some margin. I tried an QED cable that I owned (£100ish) a Black Rhodium one(£250ish). The differences were minor to the point of nothing. 
For a few reasons, I do not wish to name my cable of choice, but what I will say is that it is over £500 and when I heard it I just had to have it. I had my partner verify that I wasn’t going mad and also some friends whom share the love of music. We all agreed. I’ve reached the point in my HiFi journey that it’s gone beyond sexy new boxes and to “What actually makes the biggest difference?”.

If anyone discounts ANYTHING due to a bias or what they may believe is true is kidding themselves. Which of course they are free to do.

I will be bold and state this.
Regarding cables. If you cannot hear the differences between a good Digital cable and an average one or the difference between a standard mains cable and a good one then you are either deaf/cloth eared or unfortunately your system is not revealing enough.

Now I think I’ve said quite enough.

Good night gentlemen  

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Super Dealer
1 hour ago, TheFlash said:

I wouldn't go quite that far... don't go asking what size "Keith was right all along" T-shirt I need.

I just think the idea of a cable making or breaking a system is bit far-fetched... unless, as you might say, it's packed with dodgily designed and/or poorly executed components. Yes, some cables change the sound. No, I don't have my system cabled up with Black & Decker mains wire. There are a few simple parameters in a decent cable and that's it.

Be reassured that we still inhabit different worlds... and mine has music in it!

I don’t believe you are deaf/cloth eared, I will put you down for a ‘large’.

Keith

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13 minutes ago, Lord J said:

I will be bold and state this.
Regarding cables. If you cannot hear the differences between a good Digital cable and an average one or the difference between a standard mains cable and a good one then you are either deaf/cloth eared or unfortunately your system is not revealing enough.

Can you define “good” in the context of digital cable? F.e. What makes a good S/PDIF cable?

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21 minutes ago, Lord J said:

For a few reasons, I do not wish to name my cable of choice, but what I will say is that it is over £500

My USB cable cost £2.5 or less than 1/200 the price of yours:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B01BV2VRK2

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23 minutes ago, tuga said:

My USB cable cost £2.5 or less than 1/200 the price of yours:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B01BV2VRK2

Oh dear. What a funny lot some of you are. 
I wasn’t referring to USB cables I do not own any for the purposes of listening to HiFi.

£2.50. I suppose that was including postage being a “Prime member”.

I suppose in your world that’s a good thing?

Fill ya boots.
 

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50 minutes ago, tuga said:

Can you define “good” in the context of digital cable? F.e. What makes a good S/PDIF cable?

Err. That it sounds better?

More texture, more space, more realism, more...

... hang on, this is a HiFi forum isn’t it?

FFS

Edited by Lord J

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8 hours ago, Lord J said:

Regarding cables. If you cannot hear the differences between a good Digital cable and an average one or the difference between a standard mains cable and a good one then you are either deaf/cloth eared or unfortunately your system is not revealing enough

I perceive distinct differences between cables in various contexts in both the digital and analogue domain, but I would absolutely stop short of in any way choosing to denigrate either the hearing or the systems of those that do not, or choose to keep their opinions on the matter to themselves (you know who you are....) - this is pointlessly divisive and, frankly, somewhat rude - there is no requirement to justify owning components in whatever category - if it increases your enjoyment of the music, that is surely the primary objective - involving oneself in petty squabbling over such matters is not going to persuade anyone of the virtues of your way of thinking - the Wam is a broad church - it even includes Keith for heaven's sake.... MH

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8 hours ago, Lord J said:

Oh dear. What a funny lot some of you are. 
I wasn’t referring to USB cables I do not own any for the purposes of listening to HiFi.

£2.50. I suppose that was including postage being a “Prime member”.

I suppose in your world that’s a good thing?

Fill ya boots.
 

It's a great think. Cable rule no.1: the shorter the better.

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8 hours ago, Lord J said:

Err. That it sounds better?

More texture, more space, more realism, more...

A digital cable carries digital data, not audio signals. The better cable is the best conductor.

I can easily accept that an analogue cable could be used for EQ'ing but not a digital one which should just be fit for purpose. I have one of these S/PDIF coax cables which meets the S/PDIF spec and thus can be considered a better cable, less than £10 for the 1 metre at Thomann:

https://www.cordial-cables.com/en/products/cpds-cc

The SPDIF standard and word clock require a characteristic impedance of 75 ohms, AES/EBU 110 ohms.

Only then digital audio transmission via cable will be absolutely interference-free.

The CPDS CC is fine-tuned to meet exactly these specific requirements.

8 hours ago, Lord J said:

... hang on, this is a HiFi forum isn’t it?

Indeed it is. Not a Paranormal forum.

Edited by tuga

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19 minutes ago, MotherSky said:

I perceive distinct differences between cables in various contexts in both the digital and analogue domain, but I would absolutely stop short of in any way choosing to denigrate either the hearing or the systems of those that do not, or choose to keep their opinions on the matter to themselves (you know who you are....) - this is pointlessly divisive and, frankly, somewhat rude - there is no requirement to justify owning components in whatever category - if it increases your enjoyment of the music, that is surely the primary objective - involving oneself in petty squabbling over such matters is not going to persuade anyone of the virtues of your way of thinking - the Wam is a broad church - it even includes Keith for heaven's sake.... MH

It certainly is a broad Church. From those who believe to those that don’t.

I certainly didn’t wish to come across as rude. 
 

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1 minute ago, tuga said:

A digital cable carries digital data, not audio signals. The better cable is the best conductor.

A can easily accept that an analogue cable could be used for EQ'ing but not a digital one which shoul just be fit for purpose. I have one of these S/PDIF coax cables which meets the S/PDIF spec and thus can be considered a better cable, less than £10 for 1 metre at Thomann:

https://www.cordial-cables.com/en/products/cpds-cc

The SPDIF standard and word clock require a characteristic impedance of 75 ohms, AES/EBU 110 ohms.

Only then digital audio transmission via cable will be absolutely interference-free.

The CPDS CC is fine-tuned to meet exactly these specific requirements.

Sir, you are entitled to your opinion - however what is your experience?

Considering that you’re a member of a HiFi forum and an audiophile, have you ever tried different digital cables? Have you ever tried different mains cables? 
If you haven’t then you really should - it’s fun.

If you have and not noticed an improvement then I suggest you haven’t tried the right ones or there are other factors as to why the changes aren’t revealing themselves.

As member of the same church as me, I believe it’s my duty to say “Give it a go”.

The argument you have given, that if a product doesn’t carry the audio signal it cannot affect the sound, is rather ironic considering the topic of this thread.

The Mutec MC-3 has proved successful in improving the sound of all those that have tried it. Mmm and guess what it does? It reclocks the very same digital signal being transferred in the cable that according you, can’t make a difference.

Is your belief really that unless it carries an audio signal then a product will not and cannot improve the sound of a HiFi system?

Have you also never experimented with component supports? Coupling/decoupling etc?

Again dear brother, then you should. 
 

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55 minutes ago, tuga said:

It's a great think. Cable rule no.1: the shorter the better.

Not for SPDIF though Ric. The rough rule of thumb is that the ideal length for SPDIF coax is around 1.5m to minimise potential reflection issues.

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30 minutes ago, Lord J said:

Sir, you are entitled to your opinion - however what is your experience?

I have tried 4 different S/PDIF cables back in the early days when blissful ignorance drove my need to explore everything, when I was eager to learn the jargon, drank from the wisdom of magazine reviewers and listened on a loop to the rubbish that was played at shows or mentioned in said mags.

Nowadays I try to practice an as-evidence-based-as-possible audiophilia as much as I can.

30 minutes ago, Lord J said:

Considering that you’re a member of a HiFi forum and an audiophile, have you ever tried different digital cables? Have you ever tried different mains cables? 
If you haven’t then you really should - it’s fun.

Comparing cables is definitely not my idea of fun. I have learned that I can save money and focus my attention on things that really matter by understanding the science.

30 minutes ago, Lord J said:

If you have and not noticed an improvement then I suggest you haven’t tried the right ones or there are other factors as to why the changes aren’t revealing themselves.

I have noticed an improvement. It results to fitness for purpose and not price, definitely not marketing blabber. The Cordial S/PDIF cable is a case in point.

Like I said in a previous message, I can easily accept that an analogue cable could be used for EQ'ing but not a digital one which should just be fit for purpose. How do you know if a digital cable is fit for purpose? Look at the specs.

Audio cables are different. Personally I would always go for the best conductor but I can understand that others may find that a lesser conductor may "increase™" sound quality.

30 minutes ago, Lord J said:

The argument you have given, that if a product doesn’t carry the audio signal it cannot affect the sound, is rather ironic considering the topic of this thread.

The Mutec MC-3 has proved successful in improving the sound of all those that have tried it. Mmm and guess what it does? It reclocks the very same digital signal being transferred in the cable that according you, can’t make a difference.

It's not magic but science that is producing those changes.

The Mutec is actively improving the signal transmission (the S/PDIF is a flawed transmission standard).

A badly designed S/PDIF cable on the other hand can passively deteriorate the signal.

30 minutes ago, Lord J said:

Is your belief really that unless it carries an audio signal then a product will not and cannot improve the sound of a HiFi system?

It is not my belief but my understanding of the Science involved.

30 minutes ago, Lord J said:

Have you also never experimented with component supports? Coupling/decoupling etc?

Again dear brother, then you should.

I have a sister but no brothers that I know of. Unless you mean fellow human.

I have experimented with supports. My turntable, when I had one, was placed on a wall-hung support which itself was fixed to a 400mm-thick masonry wall. I also tried a few different decoupling materials under a pair large 52kg I once owned which was making the traditional supended timber floors resonate.

Edited by tuga

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