tuga

Affordable high-performance horn speakers?

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OK,people.  AS my monicker suggests, (Hornucopia) I've had several  horn speakers -Klipschorns for 17 years; Avantgarde Duos for 5; currently I have Opera Consonance M15-24th Anniversary horns. The latter 2 both have non-horn bass, -the Operas have a slight horn front there-see pic.

I think we in UK have to accept that our houses preclude owning full scale bass horns?

Arguments about what's 'best' have gone on in horn world for ages. And on here-4 pages in 24 hours!

Very few of  us will ever own a 'proper' horn set-up, so at best an acceptable compromise has to suffice.

But we can dream, of barns, or converted churches where our fantasies can reign.

The Ks may be technically incorrect, but the life-size sound is very seductive. The Operas too sound lovely.

I guess the one thing we can agree on is that the dynamics and impact ('reality'?) of horns is wonderful.

IMG_1736.jpg(I too have a Hafler DH200-and the Operas are for sale!)

Edited by Hornucopia
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The currently-available commercial 3-way and augmented 3-way horns that I know of are:

Acapella Sphäron Excalibur –> https://www.acapella.de/acapella-audio-arts-sphaeron-excalibur/?lang=en

Avantgarde Trio series –> https://www.avantgarde-acoustic.de/en/products/trio-series/trio-xd.html

Cessaro Beta –> https://www.cessaro.de/products/beta-ii/

Horns Universum –> http://horns.pl/en/speaker-sets/universum-3-way/

Living Voice Vox series –> https://www.livingvoice.co.uk/vox-palladian-horn-loudspeaker.html

Odeon Carnegie (built to order?) –> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC2XQD0fBzc

Tune Audio Anima –> https://www.tuneaudio.com/audio-product/tune-audio-anima/

.

Does anyone know of any other models?

Edited by tuga

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57 minutes ago, Hornucopia said:

OK,people.  AS my monicker suggests, (Hornucopia) I've had several  horn speakers -Klipschorns for 17 years; Avantgarde Duos for 5; currently I have Opera Consonance M15-24th Anniversary horns. The latter 2 both have non-horn bass, -the Operas have a slight horn front there-see pic.

I think we in UK have to accept that our houses preclude owning full scale bass horns?

Arguments about what's 'best' have gone on in horn world for ages. And on here-4 pages in 24 hours!

Very few of  us will ever own a 'proper' horn set-up, so at best an acceptable compromise has to suffice.

But we can dream, of barns, or converted churches where our fantasies can reign.

The Ks may be technically incorrect, but the life-size sound is very seductive. The Operas too sound lovely.

(I too have a Hafler DH200-and the Operas are for sale!)

IMG_1736.jpg

I had the Opera Consonance M12 mk2s years ago.

2634476752_3084b36dbc_z.jpg

.

.

They were 2-way speakers which I modded into 2-way narrow dispersion + bass bin (here with horn support prototype):

3157946888_3225ee563b_o.jpg

3057474974_0ed09d2afe.jpg

Edited by tuga

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Oris Swing?

Plus the Operas, both M12 and M15.

TUga-your diagram is good, showing that both height -for listening and coherence of sound source important.

Edited by Hornucopia

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9 minutes ago, Hornucopia said:

I think we in UK have to accept that our houses preclude owning full scale bass horns?

Arguments about what's 'best' have gone on in horn world for ages. And on here-4 pages in 24 hours!

Very few of  us will ever own a 'proper' horn set-up, so at best an acceptable compromise has to suffice.

Like I said previously, it doesn't really matter what we can or cannot afford, or wheter proper horns fit in our homes.

In my view it doesn't make sense to invest or pursue horns unless you reap all of the advantages of the topology, and that can only be achieved with at least augmented 3-way horns, preferably 4-way + sub bass.

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2 minutes ago, Hornucopia said:

Oris Swing?

Plus the Operas, both M12 and M15.

Unless the swing uses a concentric driver neither are 3-way horns.

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I see Phil (HifiNut) is paying this thread some attention and so it occurred to me to ask myself the question 'how would we define the Impulse H1 and H2?' (Phil owns one or other of these and I have long been following these models round the forums and on Ebay since the famous Jimmy Hughes review in Hifi Answers magazine.)

Come on Tuga - these have to be included in our thread as legitimate horn speakers or we will have no readership..!

Jack

Edited by Non-Smoking Man

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4 minutes ago, tuga said:

Like I said previously, it doesn't really matter what we can or cannot afford, or wheter proper horns fit in our homes.

In my view it doesn't make sense to invest or pursue horns unless you reap all of the advantages of the topology, and that can only be achieved with at least augmented 3-way horns, preferably 4-way + sub bass.

'All' seems to be a stumbling block here..

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For completion, I throw in Nottingham Analogue KHorns and Tom Fletcher Khorns, though neither meets Tuga's strict definition.

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I'm really interested in the hybrid approach, I guess I'd want to manage the bass via a separate sub though rather than have it in the same unit.

I'm also really impressed by @robbie010's DIY build, never thought I'd say this but I could see myself giving it a go at some point. I've been dipping into diyaudio.com a little.

think I'm fine with the self build skills, what I'm going to struggle with is how to decide which tried and tested build to start with.

Guess the ideal would be demoing them at the WAM event but a home demo isn't going to be viable.

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We have travelled a bit since the opening question which related to the quest for 'Affordable Horns' (The thread is none the worse for expanding into philosophy (if that's not too grand a word for it..)

But, back to 'affordability' what about Simon Mears' builds? He is somewhat derivative inasmuch that his speaker (beautifully crafted)  reminds one of the non cornerloaded Klipsch designs, but it might qualify as 'affordable'..?

Jack

Edited by Non-Smoking Man

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21 minutes ago, Phobic said:

I'm really interested in the hybrid approach, I guess I'd want to manage the bass via a separate sub though rather than have it in the same unit.

I'm also really impressed by @robbie010's DIY build, never thought I'd say this but I could see myself giving it a go at some point. I've been dipping into diyaudio.com a little.

think I'm fine with the self build skills, what I'm going to struggle with is how to decide which tried and tested build to start with.

Guess the ideal would be demoing them at the WAM event but a home demo isn't going to be viable.

If you ever choose to go the horns-in-a-box way, do make note of John Atkinson's alert "Multiway loudspeakers with horn-loaded drivers but a flat baffle can be made time-coincident with digital signal processing"

.

But even before you start ask yourself why you want a horn speaker.

Most people would say that they want horn because they like flea-power Single-Ended Triode amps.

In my view, one should go SET because one's chosen to use horns and not the other way around. Band-passed SETs in active systems with high-sensitivity (>100dB) horn speakers produce very little HD and IMD and are less susceptible to impedance interaction problems.

.

And why would you want to use horns?

• constant narrow directivity down to the bass –> more direct sound / less room interference above transition frequency, sharper phantom images, less "congestion"

• lower harmonic and intermodulation distortion at high volumes

• (perhaps lower distortion reproduction of low-level signals)

.

My recommendation is that you find out if you prefer wide- (wider stage, more envelopment) or narrow-directivity in the first place.

Then make sure that you understand the importance of using 3 horns for the mids and treble.

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24 minutes ago, Non-Smoking Man said:

We have travelled a bit since the opening question which related to the quest for 'Affordable Horns' (The thread is none the worse for expanding into philosophy (if that's not too grand a word for it..)

But, back to 'affordability' what about Simon Mears' builds? He is somewhat derivative inasmuch that his speaker (beautifully crafted)  reminds one of the non cornerloaded Klipsch designs, but it might qualify as 'affordable'..?

Jack

I won't add them to my list because they don't adhere to my strict narrow-minded requirements and this is my thread. :P

But thanks for mentioning Simon Mears whom I'd never heard of –> http://simonmearsaudio.com/uccello-horn-loudspeakers.html

Edited by tuga

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As soon as you publish a thread its no longer 'yours', its public. Anyway you are the one responsible for the digression (s). :)

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Since speaker directivity is the crux of the matter when it comes to horn speakers, here is a list with the normalised response of different types of speakers to better illustrate what it means and how it relates with different speaker topologies.

.

Dutch & Dutch 8C (wave-guided mid and tweeter cardioid narrow baffle box with rear woofers)

719DD8Cfig3.jpg

.

Kef Blade 2 (wave-guided coax narrow baffle box with side woofers)

615KEF2fig05.jpg

.

PSB T3 (wave-guided mid and tweeter narrow baffle box)

816PSBT3fig5.jpg

.

Sonus Faber Stradivari (650mm wide baffle box)

SFSfig5.jpg

.

Jamo R907 (open baffle)

209Jamfig5.jpg

.

Gradient Helsinki 1.5 (wave-guided mid and tweeter open baffle)

810Helfig3.jpg

.

Quad ESL-2805 (planar dipole)

66Quadfig04.jpg

.

MartinLogan Montis (curved planar dipole above 300Hz)

912Montisfig4.jpg

.

Avantgarde Uno Nano (horns above 350Hz)

709AGUfig5.jpg

.

MBL Radialstrahler 101E Mk.II (omni)

412MBLfig3.jpg

source: https://www.stereophile.com/

Edited by tuga

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