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Affordable high-performance horn speakers?

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31 minutes ago, Phobic said:

thanks, I read through the paper and can better understand the reflected, diffracted and high order mode issues. so managing the honkiness it just a case of correct horn design/shape to better manage the diffraction issue. The Le Cléac'h almost eliminates it.

Can you read French?

This one is good too: http://unepassionaudiophile.fr/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Pavillon-JMLC.pdf

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On 27/10/2020 at 23:45, Phobic said:

 so managing the honkiness it just a case of correct horn design/shape to better manage the diffraction issue. The Le Cléac'h almost eliminates it.

Some interesting views on horn colouration.

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/140190-jean-michel-lecleach-horns-150.html

I went through a horny phase a few years ago, I loved them for the 1st few years, but after a while I started to hear the colouration as described in my link. 

Has any one heard (who recognises the colouration? ) heard a horn set up that doesn't distort in this way..

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Super Wammer
On 28/10/2020 at 00:17, tuga said:

just conversational french, and even then it's very bad!

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25 minutes ago, steve 57 said:

Some interesting views on horn colouration.

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/140190-jean-michel-lecleach-horns-150.html

I went through a horny phase a few years ago, I loved them for the 1st few years, but after a while I started to hear the colouration as described in my link. 

Has any one heard (who recognises the colouration? ) heard a horn set up that doesn't distort in this way..

thanks interesting read.

would be interested to hear from people as well who know of horns that don't have this colouration. 

Or is the colouration maybe part of what people like?

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4 hours ago, Phobic said:

thanks interesting read.

would be interested to hear from people as well who know of horns that don't have this colouration. 

Or is the colouration maybe part of what people like?

I don't think many hear the colouration, and in any case it's a small price to pay for the level of retrieval you get with most decent horn speakers, but with all speakers there does not seem to be many that actually get just about everything right. Even for new car money, or more !

I think realistic sounding high 'end speakers' are not about horns, but are about good drivers, it just happens that many horn speakers use good drivers.

'Affordable' really good drivers are the diy guys holy grail, you only have to look at diy audio links, which are  full of unsubstantiated advice on what may or may not be good or a right bargain 

So once you identify your desired drivers, the pratical man has the advantage that with a couple of grands worth of investment, he may well produce something that could well equal or better some really high end gear.

Theres a few guys on this site with alot of experience going by the start of this thread, and I'm also sure theres quite a few who would like to end up with speakers that are a little more exotic than most of today's boxes and wondering how to get on the ladder.. its threads like this that get both camps together

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31 minutes ago, steve 57 said:

I don't think many hear the colouration, and in any case it's a small price to pay for the level of retrieval you get with most decent horn speakers, but with all speakers there does not seem to be many that actually get just about everything right. Even for new car money, or more !

I think realistic sounding high 'end speakers' are not about horns, but are about good drivers, it just happens that many horn speakers use good drivers.

'Affordable' really good drivers are the diy guys holy grail, you only have to look at diy audio links, which are  full of unsubstantiated advice on what may or may not be good or a right bargain 

So once you identify your desired drivers, the pratical man has the advantage that with a couple of grands worth of investment, he may well produce something that could well equal or better some really high end gear.

Theres a few guys on this site with alot of experience going by the start of this thread, and I'm also sure theres quite a few who would like to end up with speakers that are a little more exotic than most of today's boxes and wondering how to get on the ladder.. its threads like this that get both camps together

All speaker topologies have advantages and shortcomings. And a high-performance speaker is not just about the quality of the drivers it uses but also a multitude of other aspects. Horns have particular requirements but so do boxes or panels.

This white paper for the Kef Reference series is a good illustration of the variety of challenges involved in the design of a loudspeaker:

https://www.shop.us.kef.com/pub/media/wysiwyg/documents/thereference/REF_White_Paper_preview_path_200514.pdf

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6 hours ago, Phobic said:

thanks interesting read.

would be interested to hear from people as well who know of horns that don't have this colouration. 

Or is the colouration maybe part of what people like?

There are many factors that could trigger the trombone'ing effect: a compression driver that is not perfectly centered, the high-pass frequency was set too low for the pairing horn, the profile of the horn throat, etc.

High-performance horns are more difficult to get right. And they need more ways than a box speaker. They're complex, large and expensive.

Edited by tuga

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Super Wammer
48 minutes ago, tuga said:

All speaker topologies have advantages and shortcomings. And a high-performance speaker is not just about the quality of the drivers it uses but also a multitude of other aspects. Horns have particular requirements but so do boxes or panels.

This white paper for the Kef Reference series is a good illustration of the variety of challenges involved in the design of a loudspeaker:

https://www.shop.us.kef.com/pub/media/wysiwyg/documents/thereference/REF_White_Paper_preview_path_200514.pdf

Thanks I'll add this to my reading pile

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7 minutes ago, Phobic said:

Thanks I'll add this to my reading pile

In that case have one more (Kef Blade) :P

http://www.my-hiend.com/leoyeh/2009c/White Paper.pdf

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You can build good speakers with good drivers,  ..you can easily build a bad speaker  with good drivers, but it's a difficult thing to build a speaker that exceed what the driver is capable of.

In support of that I have close to 60/70/ or more drivers that I've bought, tested and fitted into various speakers

Theres a handful that I now consider good enough

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50 minutes ago, tuga said:

In that case have one more (Kef Blade) :P

http://www.my-hiend.com/leoyeh/2009c/White Paper.pdf

thanks.

I think I need to do something to get a weeks ban from here so I can read everything!

Edited by Phobic
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Moderator

@MF 1000 - you're not trying hard enough Keith! :rofl:

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39 minutes ago, tuga said:

A DIY shot at a 4-way + sub:

I remember this very well... I was quite  impressed he's definitely a very nice guy and was admiring his loudspeaker handy work... But when it came to his engineering turntable effort i thought poor old Joe had gotten out of his depth...talk about crude engineering bless him.. I couldn't look 👀.. 🥴.. 😇

Edited by 2010*zuma

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I darent mention my (horn?) speakers on this thread either... :sofa:

Edited by 2010*zuma
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