dave6v

Ideal conditions for LS3/5 style monitors?

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Super Wammer
1 hour ago, bencat said:

Wrong sized van think more of a 10 tonne jobby .

They actually went down to much smaller .. the biggies were for outside concerts and also to transport stuff to places like the Albert Hall .. they even used Land Rover Defenders for TV stuff (cameras on top and of course it comes with a ladder on the back to get on the roof) 

 Dinky BBC Outside Broadcast Vehicles Roving Eye, Extending mast vehicle and  Mobile control roomwww.hattons.co.uk - Corgi Collectables VA03013-LN Austin A40 van in BBC  Outside Broadcast - Pre-owned - Like newCommer BBC TV Camera Van | Commercial vehicle, Old lorries, Vehicles

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Super Wammer
16 hours ago, uzzy said:

ah i cannot resist - LS35As were designed to sit in the back of a van for outside broadcast monitoring .. so ideal conditions would be the back of a Transit or VW transporter or similar sized van :nuts:

Along with the quad 405 and spender BC1 

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16 hours ago, dave6v said:

I just expected them to have their own, unique virtues that meant people may value them over larger, ported speaker equivalents, regardless of room size. But going on the above replies taken in isolation, maybe that is not the case. 

Is it definitely too late for you to put a hold on the purchase until you've been able to arrange a home demo? I suspect it isn't, and could give you the reassurance you're after that you've made a good decision.

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Yeah I'll give them a call today. Probably the sensible thing to do. I don't think it'll take long to realise one way or the other at home. Cheers all. 

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Super Wammer
19 minutes ago, dave6v said:

Yeah I'll give them a call today. Probably the sensible thing to do. I don't think it'll take long to realise one way or the other at home. Cheers all. 

Listening to speakers is a bit like eating a curry.  You are going to know quickly if it's too hot, about right or lacking spice.  Hopefully your speakers will be already run in otherwise it will take a little bit more time.  Even after being in storage for two months my very well run in speakers needed four days to get back on song.

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Super Wammer

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In their box in the loft. Had 3 pairs of LS3/5a and never saw the attraction.  The P3-ES are a much better speaker, so are ProAc 1SC.

If you want a propper smaller speaker, then either Ensemble PA-1 Reference or Jamo Concert 8.

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46 minutes ago, DomT said:

He he ... I don't think you'd get many guitars in the back of that!

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23 hours ago, JANDL100 said:

Rather back in the mists of time, 20 years ago or more, I had Rogers LS3/5a in a medium to small room (~12x15 feet, I think) and they filled it reasonably well although sounding a little small and dynamically constrained. 

Adding a small REL subwoofer totally transformed them. Uniquely so in my experience. I've never, before or since, heard such an amazing synergy between speakers and subwoofer. They suddenly sounded like a much larger and more dynamically capable speaker while still retaining most maybe all of their excellent tonal and imaging abilities. 

I'd endorse that suggestion.  The first time I encountered the LS3/5A was at Thomas Heinitz' shop in Moscow Road W2 about 35 years ago.  His main business was selling vinyl and new-fangled CDs, but he offered a limited range of equipment that he personally thought excellent. 

His speakers were little BBC LS3/5A monitors, (Rogers probably) and he used these to allow music buyers to listen to CDs before purchase, or to demonstrate a CD player.  In fact I bought my first CDP from him – a Denon I believe.

His room was probably 15 ft square but the sound from these little speakers was remarkable.  He never mentioned the REL sub until the customer remarked on the excellent sound.  The sub was out of sight, covered with a throw and located quite close to the listening chair.  You listened to the music is astonishment and asked where the sub was.  He was sitting on it!

I think Dave will greatly enjoy his new speakers.  This wonderful design has stood the test of time like no other because it's a real gem.  But he should anticipate that the scale of the music he listens to will be hugely enlarged if he adds a modest subwoofer.  Thomas Heinitz was selling this combo for an eye-watering £700 - probably 3 or 4 months' salary at the time!   Peter

PS - Remember this design (unless changed) is low sensitivity, so a surprisingly beefy amp is best

Edited by hearhere
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20 hours ago, dave6v said:

Hmm ok, doesn't sound too promising then. Buyers remorse is part of it I guess - or just giving myself something to worry about for the next 4-weeks lead time :D maybe I should have pushed for a home demo, oops. 

That said, I think the choice is determined somewhat by the situation - mid-terraced house, not wanting anything too visually (or sonically) imposing in a bedroom setup, particularly given the girlfriend factor. Deep bass makes me squirm a bit, as I dread to think what the neighbours may think. 

Volumes are generally going to be low-moderate, they'll be paired with the fairly powerful Arcam SA30, which is 120W into 8ohm (closer to 160W according to HiFi News' lab report). 

And given they'll be spending half the time in the 2nd, smaller bedroom next door, which is 3m x 2.8m, hopefully it'll work out ok. 

I just expected them to have their own, unique virtues that meant people may value them over larger, ported speaker equivalents, regardless of room size. But going on the above replies taken in isolation, maybe that is not the case. 

If you found the Spendors had enough scale and impact for your taste, in a room that was at least as big as yours....There's no particular reason to think that they will not sound absolutely fine in your bedroom....which is not particularly big. If you were putting them in a room that was 7m x 8m with high ceilings, then I'd have a concern.

Edited by CnoEvil
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Yeah, I suspect it'll probably be fine. Alas the demo model is on loan elsewhere, but they kindly told me to see how I get on with the new ones when they arrive, and if I don't get on with them, they can consider alternatives. 

Now, these are only subjective press reviews of course, but these extracts from the similarly sized Spendor A1 (55hz response) are somewhat illuminating all the same. It does suggest that raw physics aside, there have still been advances in terms of dynamics and bass response over the years: 

"... the immediate impression was they 
sound much larger than they look. 
They have the ability to fill a room 
with ease but do it in a sophisticated 
way.
 On The Fall’s ‘Live At The Witch 
Trials’ CD the distinction between 
the drums, bass and guitar was 
perfect. The Spendors also replayed 
Mark E Smith’s guttural vocals with 
just the right amount of bite.
 Switching to The Chemical 
Brothers ‘Block Rockin’ Beats’ the 
amount of bass these loudspeakers 
managed to extract belied their size. 
There is real power on offer so you 
don’t miss any of the low-end energy. 
Admittedly, there isn’t the slam of a 
big floorstander but I never thought 
there was anything missing in terms 
of overall bass attack from this track."

the performance of the A1 is entirely at odds with the appearance. It sounds improbably large and has a low-end extension that goes far beyond what a speaker of this configuration ‘should’ be able to do."

And from a 4/5 review... 

" Happily, because its transient speed is so good, you can get your kicks at more realistic listening levels. Its bass may not be strong, but boy is it fast – this Spendor just powers any song along. It’s so musically enjoyable" 

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I'd like to try the trick (I think I read about it in a spiel by Ken Kessler in HFN) of standing another pair of LS3/5As upside down on top of the first pair. IIRC the results were rather good.

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I use the My Audio Design (MAD) 1920 speakers 

"My Audio Design (MAD). Designed as a tribute to the classic LS3/5a, the 1920s are roughly the same dimensions--except in depth, where the 1920s are much deeper. The 1920s are ported, however, unlike the sealed LS3/5as. They are also much more efficient--90 dB vs. 82/83 dB"

With a little help from the Linn Space Optimisation software the bass is surprisingly good, and I later added super tweeters which also improved not only the treble but the bass too!

They also have the benefit of working well close to a wall , or in corners, or anywhere basically. Not really a LS3/5A variant but more of an homage to the original 

"So adding some cabinet depth, a port and a little more efficiency sounds like a recipe for "LS3/5as on steroids," and I have to admit that my first impressions of the 1920 did remind me somewhat of the BBC classic. There's that gorgeous, clear and lifelike midrange, coupled with imaging and soundstaging that epitomize the reasons why so many audiophiles still choose small two-way monitors for fairly expensive systems. What the 1920 offers over the BBC monitor, not surprisingly, is deeper bass, better dynamics and a larger soundstage. The LS3/5a was famous for its "boosted" upper bass frequencies that made the tiny speaker appear to go much further down in the bass than they did. The 1920 delivers its low frequencies--they are rated down to 58 Hz--more honestly. (In comparison, the BBC monitors went down to about 80 Hz or so, depending upon vintage.)"

1920-walnut-01.jpg

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The smaller speakers will be better for you in my opinion, you have to consider everything to determine how much you'll enjoy them overall. I moved from M30.1 to P3esr and now tab 10s and have never looked back, mainly because a house move changed my needs to fairly similar ones to yours.

Yes in an ideal room, like for like, the bigger speaker is better, but the smaller speaker is better suited to needs.

Moving back and forth to different rooms, check. Listening more critically in the smaller office than in the bigger bedroom, check. Preference for faster more tuneful bass, check. Visually less obtrusive, check. Volume considerations, check.

There's possibly one situation where a bigger model might be better for you, i.e. critical listening at moderate volume from distance in the bigger room. That won't matter much to you if everything else is a pain. Even in this situation the smaller speaker can be made work well as they are far more versatile with where you can place them. 

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