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1 hour ago, frans5508 said:

oh man you're killing me, another option :-). 

With a Raspberry you can build a NAS, I did once, but the hard drives are connected via USB. Therefore I think that is out of the question.

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On 22/11/2020 at 00:36, Phobic said:

I ran my different servers on a QNAP NAS for years but gradually got fed up of the poor performance, eventually I just swapped to running the server on my main PC (not laptop).

The change is very impressive, play times and searches are a lot better (when you consider how many albums I have this makes such a good difference).

I also switched to roon, and while I still think it's too expensive, I'm a complete convert to it and won't ever go back to other servers - if you're a classical lover you might want to consider something else though, twonky or minim.

Whatever solution you go for though I'd say get a bit more processing/memory grunt, agree that SSDs aren't needed unless you're putting it in the living room and need it to be quiet that is.

1 other option to consider, people on the main forum often use Raspberry Pi running linux and SSDs for their servers, silent running & very low power consumption. It's not something I've looked at myself though. 

I had a QNAP 419+ with 0.5 GB of memory and searches were painfully slow.

The Forum suggested I get more memory, so I decided on a new QNAP 251+ with 4GB of memory, and search times were reduced significantly using Kazoo.

‘If I use the Lumin app, load times are instantaneous 

Edited by Paulssurround
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If I still get rich, that would be my dream QNAP: https://www.qnap.com/de-de/product/tvs-673

Of course someone can give me this as a present for my valuable tips. Address will be sent immediately by PN

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My take on this subject matter is a bit different:

1. I don't see a benefit in using a NAS to store / serve digital music in the first place (unless one already owns a NAS for other reasons, like a digital workplace.) The perceived benefit of a NAS, to provide access to any computer on the respective network, does not materialize in my home. The other perceived benefit, that you may have a RAID in your NAS does not really help either, as a RAID is no guarantee against loss of information. I have seen mirrored discs failing at my workplac's computer centre, so you always want to have an independent backup strategy anyway. In my case this is provided by portable discs, with a USB3 interface. From an ecological point of view, a NAS would need less energy, than my computer. I offset this by a 100% ecological power-provider. Thus, what I use is a dedicated HDD in my desktop computer to store the digital music, and minimserver as a streaming service.

2. I did try to store music on the SSD (the one my operating system runs on). Comparing it with the same file served from the HDD, I liked the HDD better. The result may be biased, by dual use of the SSD vs a dedicated HDD? Anyway, it put me off from buying SSDs to store my music. If one can trust the marketing language of Melco, they use special SDDs in their devices, not the regular ones, you'd buy for a NAS.

3. Speaking of Melco: I burroughed a Melco NAS from my trusted dealer, but could not hear any benefit. In fact, higher res files from my computer's HDD via PowerLan sounded much better than CD quality files from the Melco, which was connected directly to my DSM. Thus, I did not buy the Melco.

Sorry, for making your decision more complex. But if you have a Desktop PC already, just spending on a proper dedicated HDD and saving your money to buy more music may be an alternative to consider!

Happy listening, TMC

Edited by TooManyCatweazles
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18 minutes ago, TooManyCatweazles said:

3. Speaking of Melco: I burroughed a Melco NAS from my trusted dealer, but could not hear any benefit. In fact, higher res files from my computer's HDD via PowerLan sounded much better than CD quality files from the Melco, which was connected directly to my DSM. Thus, I did not buy the Melco.

I fully agree. Also to the SSD statements.

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4 hours ago, TooManyCatweazles said:

Sorry, for making your decision more complex. But if you have a Desktop PC already, just spending on a proper dedicated HDD and saving your money to buy more music may be an alternative to consider!

No apologies needed, this is valuable feedback! That's probably the route that I'll take for now (PC/NUC with HDD and/or external HD). 

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7 hours ago, frans5508 said:

Which brand is this Jens? looking good! It's a NUC 8i7 but with different housing?

Hi Frans,

this is a Cirrus7 Nimbini with a NUC 8i7 inside, Cirrus7 are based in Germany (just follow the link).

They are also selling the Nimbini's larger brother, the NIMBUS

Felix Engemann (the guy behind Cirrus7) is a very nice guy and is building fanless NUC with these fantastic aluminium heat sinks, you have plenty of configuration options with the online configurator but he offered me even further options.

I can really recommend Cirrus7, as you get an awful lot of value for your money :D

Even if I would not use it as a Roon Core anymore it would still remain a great (and great looking) desktop computer which definitely outperforms any Mac Mini.

Jens

Edited by JensA
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7 hours ago, frans5508 said:

What are the cost of Roon? $9.99 per month or $700 lifetime right? Personally I dont think that is expensive. Together with my Tidal, Spotify and Quboz it would come down to roughly $50 a month. I probably would cancel Tidal and keep Quboz. $30-$35 per month for a hobby i am spending at least 60 hours a month on seems ok to me ;-).

Exactly!
Roon plus Tidal (and/or Quboz) is the equivalent of less than 3 records purchsed each  month (which I still do :P):
I am extremely happy with the Roon/Tidal combo. To be honest I am buying even more records since I started using Roon with Tidal.... 

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5 hours ago, TooManyCatweazles said:

1. I don't see a benefit in using a NAS to store / serve digital music in the first place (unless one already owns a NAS for other reasons, like a digital workplace.) The perceived benefit of a NAS, to provide access to any computer on the respective network, does not materialize in my home. The other perceived benefit, that you may have a RAID in your NAS does not really help either, as a RAID is no guarantee against loss of information. I have seen mirrored discs failing at my workplac's computer centre, so you always want to have an independent backup strategy anyway. In my case this is provided by portable discs, with a USB3 interface. From an ecological point of view, a NAS would need less energy, than my computer. I offset this by a 100% ecological power-provider. Thus, what I use is a dedicated HDD in my desktop computer to store the digital music, and minimserver as a streaming service.

True:
a) Raid 1 alone is no backup strategy at all. I do Raid 1 on my 2 bay NAS plus nightly Cloud backups plus regular backups on external HDDs
b) This backup strategy is the main reason for storing my music library on the NAS but ofcourse this is no must. I actually started with Roon Core running on my iMac and the music library stored on the iMac's internal HDD.
 

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5 hours ago, TooManyCatweazles said:

Sorry, for making your decision more complex. But if you have a Desktop PC already, just spending on a proper dedicated HDD and saving your money to buy more music may be an alternative to consider!

Huups,

"saving your money" doesn't appear to be a top priority to most Linn Owners....

Ofcourse:

Just spending 100 $ (or so) for an external HDD would definitely do the job.
On the other hand the total cost of my Cirrus7 was less than the price of a Kore or Karousel upgrade...
and I am saving more than 100 Euro energy cost p.a. (comparing my iMac against the fanless NUC running more or less all day)

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I recently upgraded my ageing QNAP NAS to a QNAP TVS-672N (Intel i3), with 16 GB RAM. One reason for choosing this model was that I could add an internal Samsung 250 GB NVMe M.2 SSD for Roon Core and Roon database, with my music library on the WD Red spinning discs. Also, the processor is more than adequate for Roon's demands. This setup really does work well, and is fast. (It is also good for Plex for movies, with Plex running on the SSD). I like the comprehensive one-box solution for all my AV requirements, but it was not exactly the cheapest way to go. On the other hand, compared with other home IT purchases over the years (thinking iMac, Macbook, etc.) it was not ludicrous, and will hopefully do well for several years to come.

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1 hour ago, rad1 said:

I recently upgraded my ageing QNAP NAS to a QNAP TVS-672N (Intel i3), with 16 GB RAM. One reason for choosing this model was that I could add an internal Samsung 250 GB NVMe M.2 SSD for Roon Core and Roon database, with my music library on the WD Red spinning discs. Also, the processor is more than adequate for Roon's demands. This setup really does work well, and is fast. (It is also good for Plex for movies, with Plex running on the SSD). I like the comprehensive one-box solution for all my AV requirements, but it was not exactly the cheapest way to go. On the other hand, compared with other home IT purchases over the years (thinking iMac, Macbook, etc.) it was not ludicrous, and will hopefully do well for several years to come.

Thanks, that's quite helpful, love your setup because of the flexibility. So you can run Roon and Plex together? That's awesome. I don't think that is possible on a NUC which becomes a one-trick pony (unless you can run Roon and Windows together?). 

So in summary the options are:  a one-box solution with a NAS that is powerful enough, or a NUC with external HD's (and/or separate NAS) or a NUC with internal HD (limited to about 4TB storage in total). Indeed your option is a bit more expensive but with the advantage of having one device only. I am estimating that a setup like yours would be about $600-$800 more expensive than a 2-box solution with similar specs, would that be right?

But a couple of take aways for me so far from this thread, and open for further feedback (!):

  1. First question regarding setting up a media server is the media that you're planning to run. We've not talked about it much in this thread but it is music, video (1080/4K) or both? It reminds me a bit of the choice to make with your Linn system setup: am I going stereo only or going surround or best of both worlds. Anyway, this choice seems to determine your choice of media server. In my case I would like to be able to support all media (music, video, photos).
  2. Based on the media of choice, what OS/media server to choose? In this thread came up Mimimserver (music only), Roon (music only), Plex (all media, but it seems more focused on video?) and then many more (Emby, Jellyfin, SubSonic, kodi etcetc). In my case, streaming music will be 75% of my activity but seeing myself also focus more on video coming years. I am going to dive a bit deeper here but running both Roon and Plex seems on first sight best of both worlds but preferably I would have one app for all media which i can run from my devices, with remote access etc. I'll share my comparison and analysis with you but please let me know your thoughts knowing that some of you run both Roon and Plex!
  3. Once the media server is clear, then hardware specs can be defined. Roon seems to require relatively more power than other server software. 
  4. Some other topics: obviously budget (I like to stay below $1000 which seems hard with Roon due to it's requirements unless going for a NUC with external HD's but in that case you're limited to Roon only), how much storage do you need (today i have about 7TB but going more into movies seems to require more storage space, so you want flexilbity to grow in an easy way. The NUC with external HD's setup is limited as you only have 3 USB (in general) and that would require a NAS most likely, integration of Tidal, Quboz is also important for me. 

So far my thoughts, welcome yours! I might make it all too difficult but I find this to be a very interesting topic!

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44 minutes ago, frans5508 said:

Thanks, that's quite helpful, love your setup because of the flexibility. So you can run Roon and Plex together? That's awesome. I don't think that is possible on a NUC which becomes a one-trick pony (unless you can run Roon and Windows together?). 

So in summary the options are:  a one-box solution with a NAS that is powerful enough, or a NUC with external HD's (and/or separate NAS) or a NUC with internal HD (limited to about 4TB storage in total). Indeed your option is a bit more expensive but with the advantage of having one device only. I am estimating that a setup like yours would be about $600-$800 more expensive than a 2-box solution with similar specs, would that be right?

But a couple of take aways for me so far from this thread, and open for further feedback (!):

  1. First question regarding setting up a media server is the media that you're planning to run. We've not talked about it much in this thread but it is music, video (1080/4K) or both? It reminds me a bit of the choice to make with your Linn system setup: am I going stereo only or going surround or best of both worlds. Anyway, this choice seems to determine your choice of media server. In my case I would like to be able to support all media (music, video, photos).
  2. Based on the media of choice, what OS/media server to choose? In this thread came up Mimimserver (music only), Roon (music only), Plex (all media, but it seems more focused on video?) and then many more (Emby, Jellyfin, SubSonic, kodi etcetc). In my case, streaming music will be 75% of my activity but seeing myself also focus more on video coming years. I am going to dive a bit deeper here but running both Roon and Plex seems on first sight best of both worlds but preferably I would have one app for all media which i can run from my devices, with remote access etc. I'll share my comparison and analysis with you but please let me know your thoughts knowing that some of you run both Roon and Plex!
  3. Once the media server is clear, then hardware specs can be defined. Roon seems to require relatively more power than other server software. 
  4. Some other topics: obviously budget (I like to stay below $1000 which seems hard with Roon due to it's requirements unless going for a NUC with external HD's but in that case you're limited to Roon only), how much storage do you need (today i have about 7TB but going more into movies seems to require more storage space, so you want flexilbity to grow in an easy way. The NUC with external HD's setup is limited as you only have 3 USB (in general) and that would require a NAS most likely, integration of Tidal, Quboz is also important for me. 

So far my thoughts, welcome yours! I might make it all too difficult but I find this to be a very interesting topic!

You don’t need to run ROCK on a NUC. You could, instead, install Windows on a NUC and then install Windows versions of Roon and Plex on that. A NUC would only be limited to Roon if you went down the ROCK path.

Mick

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