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Dealer configured SO


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I've never had a dealer setup SO but I've got scars due to the effort it takes to go through things properly.

I've been wondering for a while if the dealers go through the same amount of effort.

So a couple of questions for people who've had their dealer set things up.

  1. How long did it take the dealer to setup SO in your room?
  2. How many of the different absorption parameters did they configure?

I consider myself pretty quick at doing SO, I've done it so many times, when using an existing room it generally takes me just over a day to do a full setup.

curious as to what people's experience is.

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My dealer set my SO pretty quickly. About 45 minutes. He used SO v1 rather than 2. He listened to about 4 different tracks that he chose himself and replayed about 10 seconds of each numerous times and tweaked various settings within SO v1. Sounds good to me but I intend to experiment with SO v2 also as I have no knowledge of SO v1. Could I get closer to musical nirvana using SO v2 than a dealer with V1? Don't know. I will try.

Mike.

Edited by SnapperMike
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My dealer spent an entire afternoon configuring SO2 for my Spendors and the results were and remain amazing so much so I’ve not wanted to change anything. He paid great attention to detail and we used various records for listening sessions. My primary source for my Linn system is the LP12 and I’m lucky enough to have a hifi auditioning record that has a variety of genres including different classical periods (baroque, classic and romantic) as well as folk music from Clifford T Ward, pop music from Elton John, pub rock from Graham Parker and the spectacular “Don’t Hang Up” by 10CC that is really useful. 

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I completed my own SOv2 configurations for my Linn system, so I did not have my Linn dealers visit and do SO for me.

I learned SOv2  over a period of time until I felt confident I was on the right track. This forum was very helpful in that I was able to follow the guidance of the forum pioneers that had already done their own SO, over a year ago. 

As I have an Exakt system, SOv2 was not available for us until exactly  a year ago this month, as I recall? 

‘I have visited 4 additional Linn homes to do SOv2 on their Linn system, generally spending several hours to get the room dimensions into the Linn account and set up SOv2 profiles for them. My goal was not to complete SO to optimize it, as that takes many more hours. However,  I strive to get the room dimensions entered, room features and building materials, speaker and listening positions entered and then I work on the absorption values. I will create at least 2 or three profiles that sound good, but then make sure that I teach the person how to adjust different values so they can create their own profiles. 

I have also helped at least 10 Linn owners remotely, working with them to do their SOv2., by video chat. I spend a similar time with them on video, as if I was visiting them in person, and stay with the process, until they are confident to create their own SOv2 profiles.

‘Then they can play around with SOv2 on their own, to see if they can further optimize the sound quality that suits their preferences. 

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9 hours ago, SnapperMike said:

My dealer set my SO pretty quickly. About 45 minutes. He used SO v1 rather than 2. He listened to about 4 different tracks that he chose himself and replayed about 10 seconds of each numerous times and tweaked various settings within SO v1. Sounds good to me but I intend to experiment with SO v2 also as I have no knowledge of SO v1. Could I get closer to musical nirvana using SO v2 than a dealer with V1? Don't know. I will try.

Mike.

certainly worth learning to use SOv2 yourself, you should be able to get a big improvement out of it - 45 mins really just scratches the surface of what SO can do

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SPACE itself takes less time for me than the finding the optimal speaker position using tunedem. It took me at least six hours over 4 days. I did it over several days so I could just listen to the system for fun, not critically, to confirm I was going on the right direction overall in between the tunedems. The last day I'm moving only a centimeter or two just confirming I've found the best speaker position. 

There was a thread here this year where someone was able to do virtual tunedem with heavy speakers. That would be a good read if this is an issue. It meant they moved the speakers virtually. 

SPACE v2 itself took me about an hour to do the measurements and input them. The actual time it took for Linn to grind through the calculations was often ten or so minutes after I clicked calculate. Sometimes it hangs and you have to refresh the page in your browser. Then comes the slider process. This I approached sort of like I did speaker positioning, slow, incremental, over several days. A thread here discussed sliders and I think most said to only use the top two?

I'm sure a dealer can do this a lot faster to get you to near perfect. It doesn't hurt to turn off SPACE and see if speaker positioning can be improved by a few centimeters. After all, this is your system, not his, preferences differ. The sliders will also benefit you, and maybe the dealer didn't even touch then. They are very personal.

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13 hours ago, Phobic said:

certainly worth learning to use SOv2 yourself, you should be able to get a big improvement out of it - 45 mins really just scratches the surface of what SO can do

Space Optimisation will, right out of the box, do what SO is supposed to do. Beyond that, it is a matter of personal preference. I happen to be a bit of a bass head. So, I had to spend some time retrieving the bass that had been lost. As you well know, this was balanced with a loss of detail. Why things took me so long was that I didn't know to adjust absorption values in order to increase bass without losing detail. Thanks to @Johannes

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When Captain Beefheart recorded Trout Mask Replica with Frank Zappa looking on, Frank expected the Captain to go to the console and tinker with output, refine it and improve the sound. The Captain simply said: "The Album's done Frank, it's done". I tend to feel the same way about Space Optimisation. I'm not saying it can't be improved, but I prefer to sit back in my old rocking chair, I need not worry, I need not care. We're in our place and we know where we are Shangri-La

That said, I have a trusty old MSDM I intend to use in my home office so I will need to apply SOV2 when I do. 

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My dealer spent at least 6 hours setting up my system, using SO1, over two days. He does not use SO2 as he believes it to be a somewhat blunt instrument and has not been able to recreate a similar sound using SO2 in his own home, so my setup is still based on his work using SO1.

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My dealer did the initial Tunedem on my MDSM and M140’s in 2015 with SO1.

He did a basic room within the limitations of SO1.

The most important thing was the Tunedem. He found the best place for my speakers in my room. I had been running the speakers for a week or so on my own setup so they were at least partially ran in. His Tunedem improved things notably over my own by setting the ideal position about 5cm further into the room than I had.

Tunedem was mostly done with one song he knew very well. About 20s from Johnny Cash’s cover of Hurt. Then checked with other music once happy.

This ideal position has been re-entered into SO2 and extra detail added to the room by me over time.

I bought my M6100 from the same dealer and went Aktiv. Still waiting for a follow up Tundedem check...

I’m very happy with my own forum driven SO2 tweaks based on the initial Tunedem from the dealer.

My other 2 lesser Linn systems came from eBay. So, complete DIY SO2. No Tunedem and just based on practical position only. Even then, SO2 improves the systems to my ears. 

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8 hours ago, Rich9600 said:

My dealer did the initial Tunedem on my MDSM and M140’s in 2015 with SO1.

He did a basic room within the limitations of SO1.

The most important thing was the Tunedem. He found the best place for my speakers in my room. I had been running the speakers for a week or so on my own setup so they were at least partially ran in. His Tunedem improved things notably over my own by setting the ideal position about 5cm further into the room than I had.

Tunedem was mostly done with one song he knew very well. About 20s from Johnny Cash’s cover of Hurt. Then checked with other music once happy.

This ideal position has been re-entered into SO2 and extra detail added to the room by me over time.

I bought my M6100 from the same dealer and went Aktiv. Still waiting for a follow up Tundedem check...

I’m very happy with my own forum driven SO2 tweaks based on the initial Tunedem from the dealer.

My other 2 lesser Linn systems came from eBay. So, complete DIY SO2. No Tunedem and just based on practical position only. Even then, SO2 improves the systems to my ears. 

Rich, you have now inspired me to revisit SOv2. My dealer recently set up Space for me using his SOv1 techniques. It sounds good, but I know that I could tweak SOv2 and get even better results. I have imported his settings into v2 and shall tweak from there. I do remember he too modelled my speakers as being at least 20cm further into the room than they actually are.

Edited by SnapperMike
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3 hours ago, SnapperMike said:

Rich, you have now inspired me to revisit SOv2. My dealer recently setup Space for me using his SOv1 techniques. It sounds good, but I know that I could tweak SOv2 and get even better results. I have imported his settings into v2 and shall tweak from there. I do remember he too modelled my speakers as being at least 20cm further into the room that they actually are.

Good luck in your endeavours.

My practical position is much closer to the wall than the ideal. My wife wouldn’t accept the ideal in any scenario. Similar to your setup, it is about 20cm more into the room than the practical max. Which, is still a way into the room...

After a few years of SO2 I have found myself back to the defaults... Less forced bass depth, but more natural. Now, all music anywhere else sound too artificially bass heavy to me. Particularly older rock music from before the Loudness Wars...

My conservatory system was underpowered, when driven directly by the Sneaky DSM, and sounded dull with a bit more bass forced in SO2... This made me experiment.

I applied this logic to my other systems and I am very pleased.

Bass in SO1 was still less than the defaults in SO2. I wonder if this was similar to your dealers line of thought. The room options in SO2 are far better, especially for a complex shaped room like my main one with other rooms with permanently open doors off it. Forum knowledge said to include those open rooms as part of the main room... So, a very complicated room.

Have fun with SO2, I’m sure you will enjoy it. 

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On 13/12/2020 at 21:45, akamatsu said:

I didn't know to adjust absorption values in order to increase bass without losing detail. Thanks to @Johannes

Michael, I'm interested in what adjustments you made to the absorption values to increase bass without clouding the mids and highs. Can you remember?

Mike.

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Only adjust the top two or three material types. These are the most prevalent in your house. In my case, concrete floor and suspended ceiling have the same area. Increasing the absorption tells SO that more bass energy is escaping the room, so SO compensates by boosting the bass. Edit: I realize that "boost" isn't the right word. But we all now how SO works.

Screen Shot 2020-09-18 at 12.11.10.png

Edited by akamatsu
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You make the bass here, see attachment.
 

2020-12-16 22_09_23-Linn Account – Opera.jpg

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