Cool Dude Ted

REW software

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In simple terms, could anyone please explain just how difficult or easy it is to use this software to help defeat a "bass boom" in my lounge. From previous research, I know that my main issue is/are standing waves around the 45Hz mark.

I think that I understand the basic principles and I would want to be able to use readings obtained to input to the Parametric Equaliser within Moode (run on a Raspberry Pi 4).

At the moment, I don't have a microphone and before I rush out any buy something, just wanted to ask for opinions of members who have used it (i.e. REW)

Also, do I neccessarily have to purchase a calibrated USB mic or might there be cheaper alternatives?

Thanks

Edited by Cool Dude Ted

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It is really quite straightforward.   

A calibrated mic is useful or you'll never know if you are measuring the room or the mic. 

FWIW I linked to a few youtube videos when I sold my MiniDSP to @El Seano earlier this year.   In fact in searching for that thread I notice that Sean is selling the MiniDSP on and offering some support to help you use it if you fancy moving to a hardware based set up.  Highly recommended piece of kit - I only sold it because I ended up with two room correction set ups.

Edited by jamster
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I use the miniDSP Umik-1 microphone, which at one time was the only one that worked with the miniDSP DDRC-24, bit before that I used a Behringer measuring mic which needs a separate USB interface, which was a lot less convenient. 

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Super Wammer

I would recommend the umik 1 which comes with a calibration file, and is automatically recognised by REW,

Here is a link for room correction

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/167089-using-rew-to-find-parametric-equalizer-peq-settings/

Edited by greybeard
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Here's another tutorial worth reading:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/room-measurement-tutorial-for-dummies-part-1.4/#post-5

.

And a video explaining the Moving Mic Method for measuring over a wider listening area:

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Two quick thoughts:

  1. One advantage of the UMIK-1 is that if you get one and find you don't want it long term, they are easy to sell on second hand without a huge loss.
  2. REW is very powerful software with lots of options but don't let that put you off by thinking you need to understand everything for it to be useful. Just focus on the bits you need.

I've seen lots of people across multiple forums give REW a try and it is extremely rare to find anyone who gives up because they can't do a basic measurement, and if they were patient enough to let others help I'm sure they would manage too.

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rather than reply to everyone individually, just a big thank you to you all for your helpful comments, advice, pointers, videos, etc.

Much appreciated

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52 minutes ago, MartinC said:

Two quick thoughts:

  1. One advantage of the UMIK-1 is that if you get one and find you don't want it long term, they are easy to sell on second hand without a huge loss.
  2. REW is very powerful software with lots of options but don't let that put you off by thinking you need to understand everything for it to be useful. Just focus on the bits you need.

I've seen lots of people across multiple forums give REW a try and it is extremely rare to find anyone who gives up because they can't do a basic measurement, and if they were patient enough to let others help I'm sure they would manage too.

Thank you.

So, will/should I be able to get info from REW to enable me to input the correct frequency and Q numbers Into a SW Parametric equaliser? At the moment, I seem to be faffing about with aN SPL meter on my IPAD and a calculator trying to work out the Q figures. One of my biggest problems seems to be adverse impact on neighbouring frequencies.

I’m coming to the conclusion that you either need to do this properly or not bother at all.

Thank you also for the device re the mic and on-selling. Funnily enough, this had already gone through my mind. there does seem to demand for used kit.

I’ve also taken the opportunity of watching a couple of videos about the UMIK-1 and see why calibration is important.

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4 hours ago, Cool Dude Ted said:

So, will/should I be able to get info from REW to enable me to input the correct frequency and Q numbers Into a SW Parametric equaliser?

I don't have any experience with the Moode equaliser to know for certain whether the Q values you'll be able to generate within REW will behave exactly as assumed but my guess is they will. Either way, what you'll be able to do is to initially see what you have going on in the bass region without any EQ. This will then act as a guide for adjustments to make and then you can see what changes happen as a result. From there you can tweak further depending on what the effect was. You'll ultimately need to listen to decide what sounds best but you'll have a much better chance of getting good results than purely trying to do things by ear.

In the first instance I would stick to just doing measurements at a single, fixed measurement position where you head will be rather than any sort of averaging approach. I say this because it will make it much easier to make quick before and after measurements to compare to see what changes are being made. Once you've got the hang of it there is value in using some form of average across multiple positions. @tuga linked to one way of doing this, although not one I've tried myself.

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1 hour ago, MartinC said:

I don't have any experience with the Moode equaliser to know for certain whether the Q values you'll be able to generate within REW will behave exactly as assumed but my guess is they will. Either way, what you'll be able to do is to initially see what you have going on in the bass region without any EQ. This will then act as a guide for adjustments to make and then you can see what changes happen as a result. From there you can tweak further depending on what the effect was. You'll ultimately need to listen to decide what sounds best but you'll have a much better chance of getting good results than purely trying to do things by ear.

In the first instance I would stick to just doing measurements at a single, fixed measurement position where you head will be rather than any sort of averaging approach. I say this because it will make it much easier to make quick before and after measurements to compare to see what changes are being made. Once you've got the hang of it there is value in using some form of average across multiple positions. @tuga linked to one way of doing this, although not one I've tried myself.

thank you again for taking the time to reply. Much appreciated.

I suspect one of the things I will come up against is that within Moode the maximum Q value in the parametric equaliser is 8 which, if I’ve understood anything at all to date, is about 1/6th of an Octave. I have no idea if this number is driven by a software limitation or something else. Anyway, I’ll cross that bridge when I come to it.

Thanks for the heads up about measuring from a fixed position.  As I am the only person in the house listening to the hifi and from one, fairly fixed, seat, I’ll take your advice and dispense with any averaging to begin with.

And without me appearing a cheapskate, the suggested mic is the most cost effective way forward? I.e. nothing around for half the cost giving say 80% of the performance? 

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16 hours ago, Cool Dude Ted said:

I suspect one of the things I will come up against is that within Moode the maximum Q value in the parametric equaliser is 8 which, if I’ve understood anything at all to date, is about 1/6th of an Octave. I have no idea if this number is driven by a software limitation or something else. Anyway, I’ll cross that bridge when I come to it.

When designing filters in REW there is a tick-box option labelled, 'Allow narrow filters below 200 Hz'. Provided this isn't selected, the maximum Q over this most important region is limited to 5 and so any results will be ones you could apply. Note also that there are performance reasons to choose to limit Q in this way so don't feel you're missing out. Even if you do allow higher Q filters to be used you might find that your limit of 8 is not exceeded. Try it and see. 

For music I no longer use filters designed with the help of REW but I do still use this for movies. Checking I see that the maximum Q I have currently applied is about 7.5, even though I could apply much higher Q filters.

16 hours ago, Cool Dude Ted said:

Thanks for the heads up about measuring from a fixed position.  As I am the only person in the house listening to the hifi and from one, fairly fixed, seat, I’ll take your advice and dispense with any averaging to begin with.

Even for single seat listening there are actually reasons to look at multiple point averaging in the long term but my suggestion was for what to start with. I used and enjoyed the results of filters based on single point measurements for a long time, although importantly only at low frequencies (typically <150 Hz).

16 hours ago, Cool Dude Ted said:

And without me appearing a cheapskate, the suggested mic is the most cost effective way forward? I.e. nothing around for half the cost giving say 80% of the performance? 

The only similar alternative option I am aware of is the following one from XTZ but I've never really looked into it. By far the most commonly used is a UMIK-1.

https://www.xtzsound.eu/product/microphone-pro

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43 minutes ago, MartinC said:

When designing filters in REW there is a tick-box option labelled, 'Allow narrow filters below 200 Hz'. Provided this isn't selected, the maximum Q over this most important region is limited to 5 and so any results will be ones you could apply. Note also that there are performance reasons to choose to limit Q in this way so don't feel you're missing out. Even if you do allow higher Q filters to be used you might find that your limit of 8 is not exceeded. Try it and see. 

For music I no longer use filters designed with the help of REW but I do still use this for movies. Checking I see that the maximum Q I have currently applied is about 7.5, even though I could apply much higher Q filters.

Even for single seat listening there are actually reasons to look at multiple point averaging in the long term but my suggestion was for what to start with. I used and enjoyed the results of filters based on single point measurements for a long time, although importantly only at low frequencies (typically <150 Hz).

The only similar alternative option I am aware of is the following one from XTZ but I've never really looked into it. By far the most commonly used is a UMIK-1.

https://www.xtzsound.eu/product/microphone-pro

Thank you again for the helpful replies.

given that I don’t really want to give up my amp (Rega Brio) for something that has room correction built in, then I’m assuming I have two main options;

REW & mic and input settings manually into a PEQ, or,

One of the numerous other options from miniDSP

So now it’s over to me.

Thank you again 

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57 minutes ago, Cool Dude Ted said:

given that I don’t really want to give up my amp (Rega Brio) for something that has room correction built in, then I’m assuming I have two main options;

REW & mic and input settings manually into a PEQ, or,

One of the numerous other options from miniDSP

So now it’s over to me.

Thank you again 

Unless you also really want to apply EQ for vinyl playback I suspect that using parametric EQ in Moode is probably a very good option in the context of your system. I may be wrong (as I've not tried Moode) but my gut feeling is that it wouldn't be worth you purchasing miniDSP hardware unless you were looking at one of the more expensive Dirac Live capable units (DDRC-24 is the cheapest). 

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On 25/12/2020 at 16:48, Cool Dude Ted said:

thank you again for taking the time to reply. Much appreciated.

I suspect one of the things I will come up against is that within Moode the maximum Q value in the parametric equaliser is 8 which, if I’ve understood anything at all to date, is about 1/6th of an Octave. I have no idea if this number is driven by a software limitation or something else. Anyway, I’ll cross that bridge when I come to it.

Thanks for the heads up about measuring from a fixed position.  As I am the only person in the house listening to the hifi and from one, fairly fixed, seat, I’ll take your advice and dispense with any averaging to begin with.

And without me appearing a cheapskate, the suggested mic is the most cost effective way forward? I.e. nothing around for half the cost giving say 80% of the performance? 

Using a high-Q filter is not really a good idea for room correction because it is only effective over a very small area. Using the MMM technique will help "even-out" some of the narrow-band peaks and mid-Q filters will make EQ more effective over a wide-enough area so that the listener will not have to put his head in a vice.

As for a UMIK alternative, you're welcome to have my Omnitronic for £35 (I am considering a move away from USB mics).

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10 minutes ago, tuga said:

Using a high-Q filter is not really a good idea for room correction because it is only effective over a very small area. Using the MMM technique will help "even-out" some of the narrow-band peaks and mid-Q filters will make EQ more effective over a wide-enough area so that the listener will not have to put his head in a vice.

As for a UMIK alternative, you're welcome to have my Omnitronic for £35 (I am considering a move away from USB mics).

Thanks for the reply. Have to be honest and say that my inexperience in all things DSP means that I don’t know what the “MMM technique” is. Sorry. I’ll do some searching on line.

Thank you also for the offer of the mic. Is it OK if I come back to you about this?

Thanks again

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