uzzy

Denafrips - the new DACs on the block claiming a more Analogue Sound.

Recommended Posts

57 minutes ago, Nearly bewildered said:

My topping D10 sounds not so good..it seemed it measured well at the amateur measurements brigade..hey keith can I send you my rotten topping D10 then  you can hear for yourself that measurements are just a waste of time...you will hear how bad it is...then the ASR spell will be broken.

I wrote that good measured performance does not guarantee that one will enjoy how it sounds. The fact that you prefer the presentation of the Jolida over that of the Topping is a case in point.

Good (measured) performance may or may not be synonymous to "sounds good" (because "sounds good" is subjective, a matter of preference, it depends on the listener).

Edited by tuga
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, tuga said:

I wrote that good measured performance does not guarantee that one will enjoy how it sounds. The fact that you prefer the presentation of the Jolida over that of the Topping is a case in point.

Good (measured) performance may or may not be synonymous to "sounds good" (because "sounds good" is subjective, a matter of preference, it depends on the listener).

Think I quite like distortion...lol..yes I agreed with you..I couldnt careless about bloody measurements..I listen with my ears..better than measurements!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Nearly bewildered said:

Think I quite like distortion...lol..yes I agreed with you..I couldnt careless about bloody measurements..I listen with my ears..better than measurements!

Me neither. A friend of mine works in a forensics lab... Disgusting stuff.

j4ROYLE.jpg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, tuga said:

Me neither. A friend of mine works in a forensics lab... Disgusting stuff.

j4ROYLE.jpg

Guess you need measurements to help gather evidence to catch the culprit..my ears listen and the evidence is heard and not found wanting..mostly

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Moderator
2 hours ago, tuga said:

I think that some people just find it hard to accept that they prefer lower accuracy / poorer measurements.

I am by no means convinced it is as simple as that Ric.

I have had a fair range of DACs here, and the ones I 'like' the sound of actually don't seem to have much correlation with the measurements. The Weiss and the Topping both to me and in my setup have a harshness and 'glare' for want of better descriptions. I far prefer my own non-oversampling AD1865, though that is by no means a slouch. It may have a valve output stage, but I run that at a very linear point using decent triodes so it's not a matter of rolling off frequency extremes or adding significanjt distortion.

Nevertheless, at the moment there is a borrowed RME ADI-PRO here and although the presentation is different to the NOS, I don't dislike it at all and could happily live with it. Against the D10, it sounds significantly better. Again, resorting to subjective terms, it has a musicality that the Topping seems to lack. It is easy to listen to at length, whereas the D10 seems to get in the way and add something less than pleasant to my ears.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, rabski said:

I am by no means convinced it is as simple as that Ric.

I have had a fair range of DACs here, and the ones I 'like' the sound of actually don't seem to have much correlation with the measurements. The Weiss and the Topping both to me and in my setup have a harshness and 'glare' for want of better descriptions. I far prefer my own non-oversampling AD1865, though that is by no means a slouch. It may have a valve output stage, but I run that at a very linear point using decent triodes so it's not a matter of rolling off frequency extremes or adding significanjt distortion.

Nevertheless, at the moment there is a borrowed RME ADI-PRO here and although the presentation is different to the NOS, I don't dislike it at all and could happily live with it. Against the D10, it sounds significantly better. Again, resorting to subjective terms, it has a musicality that the Topping seems to lack. It is easy to listen to at length, whereas the D10 seems to get in the way and add something less than pleasant to my ears.

I agree that I am perhaps oversimplifying a bit.

For example, I don't doubt your assessment but there's at least a chance that the part I have highlighted above may (and again it may not) have something to do with the audible harshness and 'glare'. It's not just that the D10 will not sound "harsh" but something else in the system or room could be exacerbating the problem.

So many factors to consider including taste, recording quality, the elements which compose the system, the room, even the mains.

Besides, a single parameter/measurement is manifestly insuficient to characterise the whole. It has happened often with ASR's speaker measurements that the Spinorama looks lovely but something sounds wrong, then other plots such as response of individual drivers, CSD, THD are produced and an issue or two finally reveals itself.

.

I truly believe, and I have said it a few times, that the Living Voice system which so much impressed you is probably very low distortion (except perhaps of a bit of low order harmonics).

.

In regard to the RME you are testing, does that model not have the super-slow filter which is audible terms the same as NOS?

It would be interesting to hear your thoughts regarding this and a short linear-phase one. I would expect you to prefer the former but who knows...

.

I agree with many have been saying here that many alt-objectivist have a blind belief in measurements and audibility thresholds which doesn't match mine and yours and many others' albeit anecdotal experience. But the fact is that when we compare and change DACs there is sometimes a change in the sound that is significant enough for us to keep one and not another.

I don't doubt that it is possible the D10 will sound harsh and the RME not. I have found digital filters to be audible and my experience with ESS chips has not been positive (something which I have attributed to poor implementation and the resulting "hump" discussed at ASR). Power supplies and grounding also play a role, the analogue output, the digital input. ASR and many of its members gloss over these small details because we cannot possibly hear anything 80dB below full scale and frequency response trumps everything. But then they are surprised when Amir says that a speaker which produces a pretty Spinorama sounds compromised...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Moderator

Thanks Ric. I haven't experimented much but as far as I can see I have it without any processing other than straightforward digital to analogue. Too ruddy complicated really. I'm much happier with an on/off switch and no mucking about. I don't think I have it doing any odd processing. It's certainly not an NOS sort of sound (not that there is necessarily such a beast) and it's a significantly different presentation to my NOS stuff. It's far closer in some ways to the D10, but notably cleaner sounding and less fatiguing.

I won't be buying one, but that's not because I don't rate it. Simply because as digital is nowhere near my main source, I'm just as happy half the time with my £25 FiiO, let alone my AD1865,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have had an ADI-2 for about 18 months. Even now, when I need to play with settings, I find the RME YouTube videos a lot easier to work with than the handbook.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Moderator
9 minutes ago, savvypaul said:

I have had an ADI-2 for about 18 months. Even now, when I need to play with settings, I find the RME YouTube videos a lot easier to work with than the handbook.

We are geezers. Geezers do not read instruction books. It is a sign of weakness.

  • Like 1
  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, rabski said:

We are geezers. Geezers do not read instruction books. It is a sign of weakness.

I'd like to think it's cos I'm a geezer... but the truth is that I can't remember where I left my reading glasses.

  • Like 1
  • Haha 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, tuga said:

, even the mains.

Have you really found this to be an issue?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the context of other budget DAC's , like the Topping being compared - has anyone tried and/or got measurements for the SMSL Sanskrit 10th Mk2?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Pinkie said:

Have you really found this to be an issue?

A couple of years ago I was living in College accomodation which was part of a massive brutalist complex from the early '70s. During the day maintenance would be using electric tools downstairs in the workshop which would cause audible noises, as did the fridge in our house. I sometimes think there was a "hardening" of the sound as well but woouldn't bet on it...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, Pinkie said:

In the context of other budget DAC's , like the Topping being compared - has anyone tried and/or got measurements for the SMSL Sanskrit 10th Mk2?

I hate to to this but there is one here https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/smsl-sanskrit-10th-mk-ii-dac-review.12148/

https://iiwireviews.com/smsl-sanskrit-10th-mkii-review-mark-second-is-a-serious-upgrade

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, Pinkie said:

In the context of other budget DAC's , like the Topping being compared - has anyone tried and/or got measurements for the SMSL Sanskrit 10th Mk2?

Personally I would consider the Topping E30 instead (because it uses an AKM D/A chip instead of an ESS one):

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/topping-e30-dac-review.12119/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.