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£1500 speakers for a large'ish room


Sparks
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On 08/02/2021 at 15:59, Motortown review said:

Lose the billiard table.

It's an antique table made by Gillows and I love it. I'm not getting rid.

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I would forget buying anything until you get the room sorted as I think whatever you buy will be a disappointment, re position the system to what sounds better than now, look at room acoustics, you have lots of hard surface areas to address.

After doing all the above you may actually like what you already have, if not then look at changes to the system. You could end up throwing good money away and not much to show for it.

Yeah, I'm going to play around with different positions over the next few weeks and try to soften the hard surfaces as yourself and others have already advised.

On 08/02/2021 at 16:43, CnoEvil said:

Re Subs

..................

- FWIW. I am all for a Sub for AV, but would rather get the sound I like without one

Don't assume a Sub is an automatic solution - and consider looking at better speakers that don't need a Sub (for your taste). A Sub is generally seen as essential for AV (5.1).

That all makes complete sense. Thank you.

On 08/02/2021 at 16:43, CnoEvil said:

Re Kef

I think that if you enjoy what you have, there is little chance you won't like the R Series. Taking a punt would only apply if buying second hand.

Everything that has been recommended to me here I have followed up with research including the LS50's and the R's that you've recommended. I must say it's very tempting to just get some but the overwhelming advice seems to be, (in my words) "sort my shit out first" then see where I am. This is what I'm going to do... play around with what I've already got before committing financially to something I might not need in my situation.

20 hours ago, jamster said:

Best advice is make the decision between:

1. it sounds good; I'll leave it and enjoy the music / playing billiards / living my life; or

2.  it could sound better; I'm going to try tweaking every last component.

If you go for #1, don't bother with the sub. Not worth the hassle trying to integrate it.

If you go for #2, then don't bother with the sub, start by upgrading the speakers, as @CnoEvil suggests.

:D

In a nutshell :)

19 hours ago, Gizza said:

How about the Klipsch La Scala clones that Robbie010 on here constructed and is selling. 

Looks like he sold them around the same time of your post.

7 hours ago, lindsayt said:

For that room something like a pair of Altec 604's or 605's should work well...

That's big baddass looking boxes! I know that I said at the beginning of my thread that I'm not adverse to vintage or retro type speakers I've actually changed my mind on this. If I can't make what I've got sound better and to my liking then I'll be looking at more modern stuff. I've decided I like the sleekness of what's around today more.

Edited by Sparks
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@Sparks FWIW. I have some LS50s, driven by an Arcam AVR600, with a Bluesound Node 2i as a Source....and wired with decent quality, but not expensive Speaker Cable and a reasonably decent Interconnect.

They are in a fairly large room (about 16' W x 21' L x 11'H), which has both Carpet and a heavy Rug and lots of soft furnishings....and has a suspended wooden floor. They are placed on the narrower side, about 15" from the wall behind....and on sand filled stands, which are Blu-tak'd onto Granite that is  2.5" thick.

The seating position is over a meter from the wall/windows behind, where the windows have thick curtains....and well away from side walls.

They produce just about enough scale to need no further reinforcement from a Sub, for my taste (there's enough bass to feel through the floorboards, when turned up).....the reason I'm telling you this, is the R3/R300 produces noticeably more scale....and the R 700s are in a different league again, where it comes to bass impact.

In your case, I suspect the LS50s would need Sub/s.

I felt my situation had some similarities with yours.

Edited by CnoEvil
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22 minutes ago, CnoEvil said:

I felt my situation had some similarities with yours.

I very much appreciate the info'. It's really helping me decide what to do. If I can't get my own set up to sound like what I have in my head and what I think it should sound like I'll probably pursue the R700's. But after all the great advice I've been given I now feel there's no rush, I know I'll get there eventually. And as Jamster said I'll  be in a position to just  listen to the music and get on with life :)

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9 hours ago, Sparks said:

I very much appreciate the info'. It's really helping me decide what to do. If I can't get my own set up to sound like what I have in my head and what I think it should sound like I'll probably pursue the R700's. But after all the great advice I've been given I now feel there's no rush, I know I'll get there eventually. And as Jamster said I'll  be in a position to just  listen to the music and get on with life :)

There's absolutely no rush........unless of course you come across an immaculate pair of R700s at a great price.  B|

For me, the R700s were the sweet spot in the range. I used to have some Kef Ref 205/2s, but if the R700s had existed at the time, I wouldn't have been able to justify the difference in cost....which is why the Reference Series needed upgraded, to keep the gap intact.

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2 minutes ago, CnoEvil said:

.....unless of course you come across an immaculate pair of R700s at a great price.  B|.

Funny you should say that: Kef R700 speakers - gloss black. Immaculate Condition

Although there were some that sold on ebay recently for a lot less than what those are going for at the mo'. I'm going to keep my powder dry for now.

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Two speakers to add to your shortlist should you decide to go that route:

  • Audiovector QR5s.  To my ears have a similar profile to the KEFs I've heard (fantastic detail, sublime tops, tight bass, linear mids). I took a punt on them last year.  At first I didn't get on with them, as they were too big for the smaller room I had them in.  Having moved them to a room of a similar size to yours, they really shine. 
     
  • Dali Rubicon 6s.  A bit more forward in the mids.  May be what you are "missing" (mid-centric sound being considered "warm" and "enveloping").  There are speakers which are even more mid-forward - others on here will be more expert.
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22 minutes ago, Sparks said:

Funny you should say that: Kef R700 speakers - gloss black. Immaculate Condition

Although there were some that sold on ebay recently for a lot less than what those are going for at the mo'. I'm going to keep my powder dry for now.

I think they were £2k when new - So should be around £1k imo

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..tight bass, linear mids, warm and enveloping...

I need to come to one of your shows so I can learn and hear what these terms sound like in the real world :D

Edited by Sparks
forgot to quote the poster
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5 hours ago, Sparks said:

I need to come to one of your shows so I can learn and hear what these terms sound like in the real world :D

Good plan.

You could try some EQ  / DSP if you are technically inclined.  In my recent experiments with DSP I was able to emulate the sound of some other speakers I've tried over the years, e.g. by boosting the mids and restricting dynamics.  Some people are sniffy about EQ but in my experience it can be a great way to tune the sound exactly how you like it.

A health warning.  There is actual science behind this hobby but it can be extremely difficult to decipher.  There are no shortage of audiophile soothsayers around.  They preach vague terms like "warm", "airy" etc. as a religion. I am never sure if I am using the terms correctly. :D

Edited by jamster
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5 hours ago, CnoEvil said:

I think they were £2k when new - So should be around £1k imo

The remaining stocks were sold off at  £1400 back in 2018.  A bargain - I nearly grabbed a set but ended up with my Audiovectors instead.

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I have gaia isoacoustics under my tannoys.... Amazing improvement in everything from SoundStage to bass response... 

I suggestion is 4 sound diffusers with wee legs like the GIK acoustics and a thick carpet.... These can be stored together away when not needed and then positioned when listening to music. Will cut a lot of the noise from room. Alternatively a heavy room dividing curtain across the room width to do the same thing. Excuse the finger drawing 

Screenshot_20210210_182700.jpg

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On 10/02/2021 at 15:23, jamster said:

Good plan.

You could try some EQ  / DSP if you are technically inclined...

I kinda knew what EQ meant but it's mildy embarrassing to admit I had to google DSP :/

So if I'm reading it right DSP is a more advanced version of the cheap Technics Graphic equalizer I binned?

On 10/02/2021 at 18:28, Richdirector said:

Excuse the finger drawing (pic)

I like the drawing :D But in the real world this is what it would look like:

dog_bed.jpg

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DSP will allow you (depending on the type you choose) to add or remove gain at set frequencies combined with low pass, band pass or high pass filters with adjustable roll off to address driver and room issues to a greater or lesser extent.  
 

A well set up system with DSP and separate amps for bass/ midrange etc will make the most of your KEFs 

Edited by MF 1000
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20 minutes ago, MF 1000 said:

A well set up system with DSP and separate amps for bass/ midrange etc will make the most of your KEFs 

I think I will probably have better speakers before I ever contemplate purchasing and trying out separate amps. I realise it doesn't necessarily apply to audiophiles but I'm definitely a "less is more" kinda guy, I like the minimalistic look. And I can hear her now if I bought more stuff... "oh no, not more gadgets".

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