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Kandid vs Lyra Etna lamda


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I am interested in the Lyra Etna to replace my Kandid in the future. Did anyone compare the Kandid and the Lyra Etna on the Ekos SE. What are the main differences between the Etna and Kandid? Since I use the UrikaII I would like to know which version of the Etna (normal/SL) sounds best in this setup. 

Jochen

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Jochen, 

on the 'concerto audio amsterdam' web site right now there is a picture with a Sondek/Ekos SE/Lyra Atlas Lambda ( https://www.concerto-audio.nl ) : they can surely tell you something about the sonic difference between the Linn Kandid  and the top of the line of Lyra cartridges. Maybe they have tried also the Ekos SE/Lyra Etna combination.

Another source about Linn & Lyra combination is Peter at Cymbiosis: he sells all the Lyra line and you may email him. 

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3 hours ago, Bertox said:

Jochen, 

on the 'concerto audio amsterdam' web site right now there is a picture with a Sondek/Ekos SE/Lyra Atlas Lambda ( https://www.concerto-audio.nl ) : they can surely tell you something about the sonic difference between the Linn Kandid  and the top of the line of Lyra cartridges. Maybe they have tried also the Ekos SE/Lyra Etna combination.

Another source about Linn & Lyra combination is Peter at Cymbiosis: he sells all the Lyra line and you may email him. 

As a side note, Concerto Audio has a really nice web site. 

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On 08/02/2021 at 05:30, grasshopper said:

I am interested in the Lyra Etna to replace my Kandid in the future. Did anyone compare the Kandid and the Lyra Etna on the Ekos SE. What are the main differences between the Etna and Kandid? Since I use the UrikaII I would like to know which version of the Etna (normal/SL) sounds best in this setup. 

Jochen

I haven't read about any comparisons between those two cartridges.  In fact, both the Kandid and Krystal have not been reviewed by many major reviewers (that didn't stop me because I bought the Krystal.)  

https://www.hifiplus.com/articles/lyra-etna-sl-moving-coil-cartridge/

The price of the Etna Lambda is practically double that of the Kandid.  That can mean many things and the higher price does not directly correlate with being better.  Sound quality of the Etna seems to be a magical blend of resolution with a touch of warmth (relative warmth as Lyra cartridges are not Koetsus.).  Michael Fremer from Stereophile loved the Lyra Atlas and Etna and has written that the new iterations of those cartridges are among the best he's ever heard.  

What the Kandid and Krystal have that Lyra's do not is the triple hole mounting which makes a huge difference on Linn and Naim tonearms.  

In other words,  you're going to have to audition them and decide for yourself.  

Edited by mskaye
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The Kandid is much closer to the Kleos in the Lyra line than to the Etna models. The new Etna Lambda model is 'supposedly' a significant step up over the Kleos--and therefore the Kandid. I have not heard the Etna Lambda, but I own a Kleos and have heard the Kandid and the Etna ( original model). The Etna is indeed a nice step up in SQ over the Kandid and Kleos--as it should be for the additional expense. I would suspect the Etna Lambda is an even bigger step up. BTW, the Kleos is also more of a derivative of the top-of-the line Atlas ( due to its basic motor and overall design) ( Same therefore applies to the Kandid). Nonetheless, the Atlas and Atlas Lambda are a significant improvement over both...again at a very significant price increase. 

Edited by Daveyf
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I'm sorry, but the Kandid isn't close to anything by Lyra, it is just made by them. I don't think a Kleos is in the same league as a Kandid at all.  An example of this is when Jonathan Carr, the designer for Lyra, was asked how much Lyra design was in the predecessor to the Kandid, the Akiva.  The answer was that the Akiva didn't share a single part in common with any Lyra cartridge.  Linn did the complete design and Lyra made it for them.  The Kandid is another example of the same thing featuring a body machined from 7075 aluminum with three mounting points that have threaded stainless steel fittings high-pressure fitted into it.  It also has flying leads instead of pins to reduce the number of connections the signal has to pass through (as used in Linn's top cartridge since the Troika).  There are likely other differences as well.  While all the Lyra cartridges and the Kandid use diamond/boron cantilever/coil assemblies supplied by Ogura Jewel company (as do those of a number of cartridges companies including Koetse, I believe) there are specified differently for each cartridge and I believe Linn's is different from those Lyra use.  Linn does take advantage of things Lyra comes up with, they use the new suspension system that keeps the coils and magnets lined up when the stylus is in the groove and they use a non-magnetic screw to affix the moving assembly to the body, but there really are more differences than similarities.  Another indication of this was when a customer of mine who is in the industry was planing to upgrade to an Ekos SE and was also going to do a Kandid but also wondered about an Etna.  He was at a show and asked Jonathan Carr about it.  Jonathan said that while he didn't feel a Kandid was flat out superior to the top Lyra cartridges, you would not get better performance on an LP12 with an Ekos SE than with a Kandid.  The two were just too well designed for each other.  This was before the Lambda versions so I don't know if he would say the same today but it is something to think about.

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@ThomasOKI guess we will have to agree to disagree. The Kleos and the Kandid share the same motor, same cantilever, same stylus and basically the same design. While the Kandid has the flying leads ( which to me seriously restricts its usage and compatibility), this is off-set with a tonearm that runs the internal cabling from the preamp to the cartridge pins ( which IME is a FAR better solution than using pins at the head shell/arm and then requiring flying leads from the cartridge!). How many cartridges can you count that feature flying leads---Yikes! As to the three point mounting system, this severely restricts set-up adjustment --IMHO ( Yes, I know Linn likes rigidity uber alles, BUT no azimuth, SRA, exact VTF and on and on...come on!)  . YMMV on this one.

Edited by Daveyf
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Well, I'm sure you know more about the cartridge construction of Lyra and Linn cartridges than Jonathan Carr does.  So I guess my mileage does vary.

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Does the Lyra come with a free Karousel?:D

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2 hours ago, ThomasOK said:

Well, I'm sure you know more about the cartridge construction of Lyra and Linn cartridges than Jonathan Carr does.  So I guess my mileage does vary.

Not the point at all and you know it! The two are similar in the ways that I described, which I am sure JC would confirm. Your point that "The Kandid is not in the same league as the Kleos at all" is simply your opinion and not necessarily shared by others! 

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Etna weight 9.2gr , kandid 5.7gr, three anchor points. Etna Lamda has a unique technology with asymetrical face machining and X-core-shaped coils, a high output voltage of 0.56 mV and a superb cartridge. However, Kandid is physically tuned to play with Ekos arm (9 inch lever with low weight cartridge) and lp 12; the output voltage of 0.4mV is correct. A 2nd Kandid with a voltage of 0.2mV would be interesting for pre-phono.

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@ThomasOK offered this insight in his post above

"Jonathan said that while he didn't feel a Kandid was flat out superior to the top Lyra cartridges, you would not get better performance on an LP12 with an Ekos SE than with a Kandid.  The two were just too well designed for each other.  This was before the Lambda versions so I don't know if he would say the same today but it is something to think about."

Focusing on individual specs is one thing and can be interesting, but the LP12 is clearly designed as a sum of its parts and not so much on the individual parts themselves. This is why Linn has a recommended upgrade path, that none of us really follow, to ultimately achieve the sum of their individual contributions.

As for the Kandid vs. Etna Lambda, the Etna seems to be almost x2 as expensive as the Kandid which is already expensive. However, maybe Linn can offer a similar class cartridge as the Etna for less as a value added proposition to Linn customers. While you read about Lyra cartridges on all kinds of turntables, I have never read about a Linn cartridge on anything but a Linn turntable. As stated above there is most likely a systems based design approach and is part of the reason many of us have gravitated and stayed with Linn over the years.

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5 minutes ago, macfan said:

@ThomasOK offered this insight in his post above

"Jonathan said that while he didn't feel a Kandid was flat out superior to the top Lyra cartridges, you would not get better performance on an LP12 with an Ekos SE than with a Kandid.  The two were just too well designed for each other.  This was before the Lambda versions so I don't know if he would say the same today but it is something to think about."

Focusing on individual specs is one thing and can be interesting, but the LP12 is clearly designed as a sum of its parts and not so much on the individual parts themselves. This is why Linn has a recommended upgrade path, that none of us really follow, to ultimately achieve the sum of their individual contributions.

As for the Kandid vs. Etna Lambda, the Etna seems to be almost x2 as expensive as the Kandid which is already expensive. However, maybe Linn can offer a similar class cartridge as the Etna for less as a value added proposition to Linn customers. While you read about Lyra cartridges on all kinds of turntables, I have never read about a Linn cartridge on anything but a Linn turntable. As stated above there is most likely a systems based design approach and is part of the reason many of us have gravitated and stayed with Linn over the years.

The question becomes, which piece is holding the other back..is it the Ekos SE is holding back the Etna/ Etna Lambda, or is it the Etna/Etna Lambda is holding back the Ekos SE? I know where my money would be placed....;)

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2 hours ago, macfan said:

@ThomasOK offered this insight in his post above

"Jonathan said that while he didn't feel a Kandid was flat out superior to the top Lyra cartridges, you would not get better performance on an LP12 with an Ekos SE than with a Kandid.  The two were just too well designed for each other.  This was before the Lambda versions so I don't know if he would say the same today but it is something to think about."

Focusing on individual specs is one thing and can be interesting, but the LP12 is clearly designed as a sum of its parts and not so much on the individual parts themselves. This is why Linn has a recommended upgrade path, that none of us really follow, to ultimately achieve the sum of their individual contributions.

As for the Kandid vs. Etna Lambda, the Etna seems to be almost x2 as expensive as the Kandid which is already expensive. However, maybe Linn can offer a similar class cartridge as the Etna for less as a value added proposition to Linn customers. While you read about Lyra cartridges on all kinds of turntables, I have never read about a Linn cartridge on anything but a Linn turntable. As stated above there is most likely a systems based design approach and is part of the reason many of us have gravitated and stayed with Linn over the years.

"However, maybe Linn can offer a similar class cartridge as the Etna for less as a value added proposition to Linn customers."  That's funny and will never happen.  Linn doesn't give anything away.  A Linn version of the Etna would be in the 5 figures.

"I have never read about a Linn cartridge on anything but a Linn turntable."   Why?  Tonearm synergy (3 hole mounting) and marketing. Maybe a house sound.

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We once made a non official and suboptimal comparison between Linn Kandid and Lyra Atlas (not Lambda). There was also a top representative from Linn - who doesn't want to be named - there.

He was very surprised at how well Atlas played. It was a clear advantage in most of the criteria. Taking into account the fact that Atlas is more than twice as expensive, Kandid still cuts a fine figure.

LP12 with two Ekos SE (one with Kandid, one with Atlas), setup was not perfect but gave a good idea about the differences.

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