robbie010

Ethernet Cables and Switches

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Super Wammer
31 minutes ago, Tintinabulum said:

I spent £50 on a CISCO 2960 and was astounded by the increase in SQ. I guess it depends how you do it (but get permission from Amir and his gang first).

Martin, when you say you were astounded by the SQ increase, was this no dropouts, or clicks and pops/interference. Or did you feel it actually improved the SQ of the system, as you were not having any of the aforementioned problems?

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1 hour ago, greybeard said:

Martin, when you say you were astounded by the SQ increase, was this no dropouts, or clicks and pops/interference. Or did you feel it actually improved the SQ of the system, as you were not having any of the aforementioned problems?

Pure SQ, I've never suffered from pops and clicks. Also the CISCO has a fibre port which can be configure to "output". So, cost effective optical on the other end and you have galvanic isolation for modest cost, not the £4-500. Jobs a good 'un.

Now if only Amir would allow me to hear the difference and his acolytes would stop telling me I'm insane and I'm making it up...

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6 hours ago, Emlin said:

You may wish to view the video that I linked to earlier. It may clear some of your delirium. 

Here it is again: Do Audiophile Network Switches Make a Difference? - YouTube

That is a rather offensive response to my post. Your insult is also vague. What, out of everything that I said do you think indicates delirium on my part?

The video that you linked to is extremely boring and appears to have been made by Serge's American cousin.

Just because someone has made a Youtube video, that doesn't mean to say it's the be all and end all of everything you need to know on a subject area.

Surely it's better to do your own tests in your own system and to make up your own mind? Especially if you can do the tests for free or nearly free?

2 hours ago, tuga said:

I have just bought a Linksys wired router which I hope will fit the bill (tidy shelf and no more dropouts that I'm getting with an old BT router). I have an audio-only network that is not connected to the web and was considering either a Ubiquity or a Mikrotik but the setup seems to be a nightmare.

I hope that I can get away without a switch.

.

Over at Computer Audiophile / Audiophilestyle – quite the OCD community – there seems to be a consensus that shielded Ethernet cables are not good. I bought flat Cat6 from Liny which are light and have tiny plugs, they're available in 30cm lengths and are easy to lay around the rack.

At one point I was considering fibre but it felt a bit over the top. I may have it installed once I finally settle...

.

In my view it doesn't make sense to spend £4-500 in a home network unless one's system is already very good; that much money money will almost always be better spent elsewhere on the system.

How much did you pay for the Linksys router? Why didn't you go to your ISP and tell them that the router they povided was dropping out?

If you have an internal network, a used Cisco or HP Procurve business grade switch makes a lot of sense, because they are cheap, reliable and they will do a job without any configuration (they will do it more elegantly with configuration).

One thing to be aware of with fibre is that the fibre NIC's that sell for reasonable money tend to have been ripped out of servers in data centre type applications. Finding the drivers to get these NICs working properly in a Windows 10 PC might be interesting...

I agree totally that spending £400+ on a home network is - on the face of it - completely bonkers. Especially if it's still just a copper based network.

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Super Wammer
1 hour ago, greybeard said:

I spent £50 on a CISCO 2960

Where did you buy from Martin?

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1 hour ago, lindsayt said:

How much did you pay for the Linksys router? Why didn't you go to your ISP and tell them that the router they povided was dropping out?

If you have an internal network, a used Cisco or HP Procurve business grade switch makes a lot of sense, because they are cheap, reliable and they will do a job without any configuration (they will do it more elegantly with configuration).

One thing to be aware of with fibre is that the fibre NIC's that sell for reasonable money tend to have been ripped out of servers in data centre type applications. Finding the drivers to get these NICs working properly in a Windows 10 PC might be interesting...

I agree totally that spending £400+ on a home network is - on the face of it - completely bonkers. Especially if it's still just a copper based network.

I paid £35 for a used Linksys LRT214.

 I don’t want to mix wireless or internet with my file playback system so this router will only serve to link my processing laptop and a NUC which I use as a buffer/endpoint (I had a noisy NAS but have just replaced it with a quiet external USB SSD). Besides I am using a wireless mesh network and with 4 of us at home it can get busy at times. I am streaming DSD256.

My current provider is Vodafone and I had an old leftover BT router which was working OK-ish with DSD128 but is struggling with DSD256.

Thanks for the tips.

Edited by tuga

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2 hours ago, greybeard said:

Where did you buy from Martin?

I bought a CISCO 2960 from ebay for £50 last year.

It made a difference to the sound quality.

If you are patient you can get them cheaper.

The 3560 model also does a good job apparently.

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12 hours ago, lindsayt said:

One thing that I don't understand is people spending £hundreds on copper based home networks, and falling for sales patter that says that super duper swithches and cables cut down on interference - when for less money you could have a fibre home network. Or at least a fibre connection from the switch to a PC based streaming device.

There will be zero electrical interference on a fibre connection.

I suppose most people wouldn't feel comfortable installing fibre optics in their home network?

I experimented with a run of fibre in my network when I had the Etherregen.

Fibre did seem to change the sound, though ultimately I preferred copper.

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7 hours ago, lindsayt said:

That is a rather offensive response to my post. Your insult is also vague. What, out of everything that I said do you think indicates delirium on my part?

The video that you linked to is extremely boring and appears to have been made by Serge's American cousin.

Just because someone has made a Youtube video, that doesn't mean to say it's the be all and end all of everything you need to know on a subject area.

Surely it's better to do your own tests in your own system and to make up your own mind? Especially if you can do the tests for free or nearly free?

How much did you pay for the Linksys router? Why didn't you go to your ISP and tell them that the router they povided was dropping out?

If you have an internal network, a used Cisco or HP Procurve business grade switch makes a lot of sense, because they are cheap, reliable and they will do a job without any configuration (they will do it more elegantly with configuration).

One thing to be aware of with fibre is that the fibre NIC's that sell for reasonable money tend to have been ripped out of servers in data centre type applications. Finding the drivers to get these NICs working properly in a Windows 10 PC might be interesting...

I agree totally that spending £400+ on a home network is - on the face of it - completely bonkers. Especially if it's still just a copper based network.

Just to say I know nothing but thought the video was very clear, showing no difference ( in the human hearing range) at least there is evidence instead of subjective comments. I’m just wondering (as you stated that you can test yourself in your system which is free or nearly free) if you did any tests and have the results? As an interested reader in this thread would like to see the results you got. 
was also thinking as I was looking at the video he did that if he was discrediting a companies claims and his comments were untrue or unsubstantiated he would be open to be sued, especially in USA 

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Super Dealer

On the back of this thread I bought a Cisco 2940 for £30. Not because I expected any increase in SQ but because I'll shortly be laying Cat something cable to the wife's office and my studio to avoid using WiFi. Arrived today beautifully wrapped and bugger me sideways I plug it in and do experience a definite increase in SQ compared to the Mac Mini being plugged straight into the BT Router. I'm not trying to explain this, but given it's a by product, it's the best £30 I've ever spent on music making! 

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26 minutes ago, Juancho said:

On the back of this thread I bought a Cisco 2940 for £30. Not because I expected any increase in SQ but because I'll shortly be laying Cat something cable to the wife's office and my studio to avoid using WiFi. Arrived today beautifully wrapped and bugger me sideways I plug it in and do experience a definite increase in SQ compared to the Mac Mini being plugged straight into the BT Router. I'm not trying to explain this, but given it's a by product, it's the best £30 I've ever spent on music making! 

It is possible that by using a/any switch you are adding an extra layer of filtering between your broadband connection and your Mac Mini.

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Super Wammer
1 hour ago, Juancho said:

On the back of this thread I bought a Cisco 2940 for £30. Not because I expected any increase in SQ but because I'll shortly be laying Cat something cable to the wife's office and my studio to avoid using WiFi. Arrived today beautifully wrapped and bugger me sideways I plug it in and do experience a definite increase in SQ compared to the Mac Mini being plugged straight into the BT Router. I'm not trying to explain this, but given it's a by product, it's the best £30 I've ever spent on music making! 

That is also exactly what i found and was impressed by the build quality of the unit for £30 it is a real steal . I had changed just to cure drop outs and connection issues and had never expected there to be any impact on SQ but it had one and I would not go back to a cheap domestic switch .

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25 minutes ago, bencat said:

That is also exactly what i found and was impressed by the build quality of the unit for £30 it is a real steal . I had changed just to cure drop outs and connection issues and had never expected there to be any impact on SQ but it had one and I would not go back to a cheap domestic switch .

Do you need to reconfigure your router settings, or is it plug & play?

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Super Wammer
22 minutes ago, savvypaul said:

Do you need to reconfigure your router settings, or is it plug & play?

Good point Paul in my case it was plug and play and the seller confirmed that the switch had been reset to default which in most cases will work straight in to the switch . However these are managed switches and have the capacity to set up in different ways which can cause issues so you need to ensure that the one you buy has been reset to default which if you buy of any of the bulk sellers on e-bay they will do . I would also say that most people just plug and leave there router in and do not special settings on it if that is the case then all will be as it was just via the switch rather than the router. If however you haver accessed the routers settings and made changes then these my need to be transferred to the switch but it will depend on what they are. Sorry i can not be more specific but it really does matter what if any special settings are on your router and these need to be know before any definitive answer can be given .

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1 minute ago, bencat said:

Good point Paul in my case it was plug and play and the seller confirmed that the switch had been reset to default which in most cases will work straight in to the switch . However these are managed switches and have the capacity to set up in different ways which can cause issues so you need to ensure that the one you buy has been reset to default which if you buy of any of the bulk sellers on e-bay they will do . I would also say that most people just plug and leave there router in and do not special settings on it if that is the case then all will be as it was just via the switch rather than the router. If however you haver accessed the routers settings and made changes then these my need to be transferred to the switch but it will depend on what they are. Sorry i can not be more specific but it really does matter what if any special settings are on your router and these need to be know before any definitive answer can be given .

Cheers. I tend to leave these things alone, so good chance I will get away with P&P.

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