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1 hour ago, Jail4CEOs2 said:

Yes a big step. I'm trying to assess if I really need all the detail. The BK 400, if I don't keep the 212's, it can still add a bit to the Ninkas. I shoulda learned from my 109 experience I think. 

There are many Linn owners that still love their Ninkas, Keilidh’s, And Kabers, and don’t plan to upgrade.

‘Having had a pair of Ninkas, I know how good they sound, and they did benefit very well from a subwoofer 

‘You could sell the 212’s to purchase the Exakt Subbox and a subwoofer, with little outlay of cash.

I much prefer the 212’s, as they are an outstanding speaker on their own, and even better with a subwoofer. I prefer more detail, with the 3K array.

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After some days now and SOv2 running 🙌🏼 I have the following remarks/observations/scribbles.    IMHO it’s definitely an upgrade, not just a side step or matter of taste. There is however a smal

Well, I've only had the Keltiks up and running for a couple of days but already I'm very impressed. I'm using the same ASH source and AEB-I amplification as @Pennypacker. However, I switched from Nink

I think you will love the 212 when you get katalyst, they will lose the clinical sound.

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1 hour ago, Suffolkboy said:

I think you will love the 212 when you get katalyst, they will lose the clinical sound.

I never heard the 212’s but I’m also thinking along the same lines. I really would like to know the outcome when you fit the 212’s tot the Katalysed MEBi.

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9 minutes ago, Pennypacker said:

I never heard the 212’s but I’m also thinking along the same lines. I really would like to know the outcome when you fit the 212’s tot the Katalysed MEBi.

I know this is not exactly what you were thinking, but I ran my 212’s with a Majik Exaktbox I for a couple of years, and really enjoyed them.

‘Then I upgraded to Akudoriks with the Majik Exaktbox I, and the Akudoriks were more refined, quieter background, more detail and smoother.

‘This past fall, I upgraded my Majik Exaktbox I to a Katalyst Akurate Exaktbox I and that was a really big step forward in sound quality on every level

I did not get a chance to power my 212’s with the Akurate Exaktbox I, but expect it would have been a wonderful improvement.

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2 hours ago, Jail4CEOs2 said:

Yes, yes, and yes. I'm probably going to do a BK sub by the summer. I'm miffed that I have to pony up for the Exaktbox sub eventually. I want Katalyst on my Exaktbox-i first though. And of course all this is happening with a view to Zee's recent successful ADSM upgrade with some overtones to me. That means I may have to do, at minimum an ASH also....sigh. 

Jail, what's the security like at a Taiwanese bank like these days?

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On 19/03/2021 at 01:37, Paulssurround said:

I know this is not exactly what you were thinking, but I ran my 212’s with a Majik Exaktbox I for a couple of years, and really enjoyed them.

‘Then I upgraded to Akudoriks with the Majik Exaktbox I, and the Akudoriks were more refined, quieter background, more detail and smoother.

‘This past fall, I upgraded my Majik Exaktbox I to a Katalyst Akurate Exaktbox I and that was a really big step forward in sound quality on every level

I did not get a chance to power my 212’s with the Akurate Exaktbox I, but expect it would have been a wonderful improvement.

Yes Paul, but as I said to you at the time, your experience with them was as rears in a system with Akubariks as the main speaker. So even though these were a meter away, pointed directly at yer noggin, there was a lot more happening in the mix. And Akurate Katalyst too. 

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On 18/03/2021 at 23:51, Suffolkboy said:

I think you will love the 212 when you get katalyst, they will lose the clinical sound.

This is why I don't want to get rid of them. I know there is still a lot to sort out in my system. All the above upgrades are never going to be a waste. I have the luxury of two great sets of speakers at my disposal. This is proof to the Linn marketing department upgraditus drives revenue!

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On 19/03/2021 at 01:22, Pennypacker said:

I never heard the 212’s but I’m also thinking along the same lines. I really would like to know the outcome when you fit the 212’s tot the Katalysed MEBi.

I would too! Between bank balances, fear of a Chinese invasion, and the AKM fire, it may be you who is first to an answer penny!

23 hours ago, SnapperMike said:

Jail, what's the security like at a Taiwanese bank like these days?

Like all things here, polite, and orderly. I've actually instructed the guard twice at my main bank to close the snap on his holster, as it makes it harder to take his pistol. Now, either he sees me coming and does it, or has taken my advice. 

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The 2k array really improves with the rest of your system.

I presently have them in:

Sneaky DSM - LK85 - Komponent 110’s

&

Aktiv Majik System M140’s.

For identical tweeter units the differences in detail and integration are notable. Granted also different rooms and a more refined spatial setup for the M140’s. I’ve had them 5 years longer...

There is an Exaktbox 10 presently on the way to compare to Aktiv M140’s.

However, I have a non-Linn Mordaunt Short MS812 driven Directly by a little Sneaky DS that has a sweet top end well beyond their £60 eBay cost! So good that that have survived the HiFi itch for almost 15 years now! They are my longest serving and surviving bit of HiFi kit... New to somebody in the mid 90’s. Single metal dome tweeter that has worked well so far with Marantz, Arcam and latterly Linn. This can not match the Aktiv 2k array, but is a relaxed and tuneful passive bedroom system at moderate volume.

So, where I was going in a round about way, some things were right in the 90’s... Though, expectations for a main system have moved on somewhat...

I will report back on Exakt M140’s. They have followed every modern combination when this comes...
 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I've come some way over the decades and lived with all the listed systems for two years at least.
To jump on this discussion I skip Nexus, Keilidh, LK100 passive and active stuff of the 90s and start with:

3Klout/Ninka aktive

4 Klout/Keltiks
This was a side step. With Ninka tweeter the Keltiks gained some more life but it continued to be a side step.

nondynamik Twin / 109
Not the earthquake qualities of the Klout/Keltiks but the speed of the Twin/109 was so much more fun. And it delivered much more bass information than the Keltiks ever did, sorry to say.

nondynamik Twin / 140
In most of the cases the floorstanding speakers are "slower" that the small ones on stands. 109/140 is the exception of this rule. The 140s are even faster. If you can afford them go for the 140s. They do evereything better than the 109 including the speed.

nondynamik Solos / 140
Of course I changed with other speakers in mind. But even a 140 is able to transport the "solo" qualities. If you had solo qualities once, you never go back, regardless how many activated power amps you are stacking. Except solos of course.

nondynamik Solos /242
The 242 with 3K delivers a lot more information. Everything is set into proportion and there are so much more tones.
But it is a bumpy start. The 242s sounded boring and lifeless. They need everything set right before the fun of the music and the "groove" ist back. You need to care about rack, current, cables, fuses, ... everything before the 242 stops to be a boring laboratory speaker. And you need sources and preamps that were not invented when the 242 hit the market. They had been "future Klimax class speakers" all the time and were ahead of the market and ahead of even Linn Klimax electronics. My 242s made the first lively breath after the Karousel upgrade on a full blown analogue (Urika I) LP12. Pre is KK last spec. If you cannot afford top sources and pres, stay with 140s and enjoy the fun and groove they do deliver.

Edited by HH2010
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I've come some way over the decades and lived with all the listed systems for two years at least.
To jump on this discussion I skip Nexus, Keilidh, LK100 passive and active stuff of the 90s and start with:
3Klout/Ninka aktive
4 Klout/Keltiks
This was a side step. With Ninka tweeter the Keltiks gained some more life but it continued to be a side step.
nondynamik Twin / 109
Not the earthquake qualities of the Klout/Keltiks but the speed of the Twin/109 was so much more fun. And it delivered much more bass information than the Keltiks ever did, sorry to say.
nondynamik Twin / 140
In most of the cases the floorstanding speakers are "slower" that the small ones on stands. 109/140 is the exception of this rule. The 140s are even faster. If you can afford them go for the 140s. They do evereything better than the 109 including the speed.
nondynamik Solos / 140
Of course I changed with other speakers in mind. But even a 140 is able to transport the "solo" qualities. If you had solo qualities once, you never go back, regardless how many activated power amps you are stacking. Except solos of course.
nondynamik Solos /242
The 242 with 3K delivers a lot more information. Everything is set into proportion and there are so much more tones.
But it is a bumpy start. The 242s sounded boring and lifeless. They need everything set right before the fun of the music and the "groove" ist back. You need to care about rack, current, cables, fuses, ... everything before the 242 stops to be a boring laboratory speaker. And you need sources and preamps that were not invented when the 242 hit the market. They had been "future Klimax class speakers" all the time and were ahead of the market and ahead of even Linn Klimax electronics. My 242s made the first lively breath after the Karousel upgrade on a full blown analogue (Urika I) LP12. Pre is KK last spec. If you cannot afford top sources and pres, stay with 140s and enjoy the fun and groove they do deliver.

I’m curious and would love to hear more about your 242 findings. Did I understand you correctly in saying that the 242’s were still boring with solos? I’m in a similar situation of crossroads with my 242’s and keep wondering if I should take them back to passive but your post has scared me a bit.

Are you suggesting that an Adsm with akurate amps is not what makes the 242’s sing?


Adsm/1 >> Akurate 4200/3200/3200 >> Aktiv Akurate 242 (mark 1) Silvers/K400
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On 31/03/2021 at 15:17, zee9 said:


I’m curious and would love to hear more about your 242 findings. Did I understand you correctly in saying that the 242’s were still boring with solos? I’m in a similar situation of crossroads with my 242’s and keep wondering if I should take them back to passive but your post has scared me a bit.

Are you suggesting that an Adsm with akurate amps is not what makes the 242’s sing?


Adsm/1 >> Akurate 4200/3200/3200 >> Aktiv Akurate 242 (mark 1) Silvers/K400

I think what HH2010 is trying to say is, that you really need the best available source and best amps to make the 242's truly sing. But, then again HH2010 is very picky ;) I didn't find his system boring before the latest upgrades...

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I think what HH2010 is trying to say is, that you really need the best available source and best amps to make the 242's truly sing. But, then again HH2010 is very picky  I didn't find his system boring before the latest upgrades...

I was questioning his response as I have this feeling that somethings missing in my main system as well. The katalyst upgrade is being ordered this week and i’ll decide after that upgrade if I’m still happy. All my systems have been aktiv until I got the 242’s. Once I got these speakers I converted my kabers back to passive and am surprised how satisfying they are with just one Klout. So the idea is to try two solos if the katalyst upgrade does not take away this clinical sound that bothers me. Moving from an mdsm/3 to an Adsm/1 has already been a major improvement in regards of that clinical sound that I’m not a fan off.


Adsm/1 >> Akurate 4200/3200/3200 >> Aktiv Akurate 242 (mark 1) Silvers/K400
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zee9, yes, even with solos the 242s kept some clinical distance. It's a difference between studying the performers feelings in a laboratory or getting your soul directly connected to those feelings.

This good old Linn groove over here is back since Karousel. Which of all the other improvements I did before are essential I cannot say. All helped the tune, but the last step was the breakthrough.

If ADSM/Katalyst does not bring satisfaction and you are about to test a pair of solos, try to get a Klimax source for a test too and play with combinations. And be sure to have space optimisation switched off. Do not just set all parameters to zero, switch it off! SO is a real tune killer. If a same setup delivers more "groove" when replacing the 242 with the Kabers, then the Kaber might be it.  ;-)

Tendaberry, I believe that there is a certain truth or magic you do love a piece of music for. I expect a hifi upgrade not only to improve hifi criteria, but to revive this truth or magic and to add something more. I have not found this kind of "tune" with newer Linn gear that often. If that's picky, I am.

And as we know it's not a question of money. There is a long list of really expensive Linn setups, that are outperformed tunewise e.g. by a tiny little Majik level setup with Helix speakers that we both know. Of course money is no obstacle when invested wisely.  :D

I'd better stop ranting from Linn tune exile.  :$

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zee9, yes, even with solos the 242s kept some clinical distance. It's a difference between studying the performers feelings in a laboratory or getting your soul directly connected to those feelings.
This good old Linn groove over here is back since Karousel. Which of all the other improvements I did before are essential I cannot say. All helped the tune, but the last step was the breakthrough.
If ADSM/Katalyst does not bring satisfaction and you are about to test a pair of solos, try to get a Klimax source for a test too and play with combinations. And be sure to have space optimisation switched off. Do not just set all parameters to zero, switch it off! SO is a real tune killer. If a same setup delivers more "groove" when replacing the 242 with the Kabers, then the Kaber might be it.  ;-)
Tendaberry, I believe that there is a certain truth or magic you do love a piece of music for. I expect a hifi upgrade not only to improve hifi criteria, but to revive this truth or magic and to add something more. I have not found this kind of "tune" with newer Linn gear that often. If that's picky, I am.
And as we know it's not a question of money. There is a long list of really expensive Linn setups, that are outperformed tunewise e.g. by a tiny little Majik level setup with Helix speakers that we both know. Of course money is no obstacle when invested wisely. 
I'd better stop ranting from Linn tune exile. 

Thanks. I sent you a private message so as not to disrupt this thread anymore.


Adsm/1 >> Akurate 4200/3200/3200 >> Aktiv Akurate 242 (mark 1) Silvers/K400
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On 22/02/2021 at 09:25, kelly200269 said:

The 2K array sounds a bit ‘rough and ready’ in passive mode.

BUT take the 140’s Aktiv, and it solves that problem. 

They certainly improve with Aktiv and further improve with Exakt. 

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