Jump to content

Can you please test the following ....


Recommended Posts

Super Wammer
37 minutes ago, Johannes said:

Just look at what this thread is about.

Well if you've disconnected your Ethernet cables, which port do you want them in on the router and the switch at this time?

50 euros multiplied by the port number at each end sequentially. It does not matters if its modem-router to switch, or switch to DSM.

EDIT: I recommend a 64 port switch if you can afford one. Port 64 is reported better by other customers. Daisy chaining them is better still.

Better still, the cost-no-object solution is to find the perfect relay route through this:

https://4networks.co.uk/hewlett-packard-enterprise-5412r-zl2-network-equipment-chassis-grey.html

There are 288 ports to choose from, and so if one is an input from broadband modem, and another is fed to the DSM, we can explore

4.973232364097866421553822481468286 combinations of hookup to find the one you like best.

But be quick at doing it, because the age of the universe is only 1024 seconds old an we only give you a 30-day home trial.

Edited by Metatron
Link to comment
Share on other sites

For me and most others, it is now definitely proven that the ports on the switch that you use have an effect on the sound. Everyone can try it out for themselves and decide. The good thing is that it causes no pain and costs nothing. 

Otherwise, I took this as a tip and dismissed the comments of some as real satire.

It's a shame that we can't seem to work out standards together to help new forum members improve their sound.
- It would have been easy to just post whether it sounds better or not.
- It is also a pity that more people did not participate.
- It is also very sad that one forum member and his followers' suggestions and experience can now no longer be credible to me and probably some others. 
- It also irritates me that for some everything has to be proven somehow. That is sad because it hinders the individual a lot. As far as I know, many great things in human history were first assumed and possibly proven later.

P.S. @Phobic and @Metatron don't bother replying I don't read your comments anymore.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please, I would like to see everyone be respectful of each other and their views.

‘These are challenging times, for most people emotionally, with Covid and Covid restrictions.

‘I would like to focus on the rollout of the vaccines, the hopes that brings, and potential happier times ahead.

‘Our music is here to get us through this difficult time

Edited by Paulssurround
  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Super Wammer
1 hour ago, Johannes said:

- It would have been easy to just post whether it sounds better or not.

Anecdotal and subjective to each individual. At best, it only gives an idea of something extra that can be tried, which if not based on any real scientific reason to do so that could matter, is questionable.

At least some Ethernet ports have PoE and others don't. Those that don't aren't coupled to ground, while PoE often uses shielded cables, which are grounded.

1 hour ago, Johannes said:

It is also very sad that one forum member and his followers' suggestions and experience can now no longer be credible to me and probably some others. 

Truth is the aim. We all want real improvements. Only thing that has been pointed out is how to check, or not pontificate on explaining a personal subjective view in pseudoscientific terms. If the search for truth helps people check whether improvements are genuinely real or not, then that is a service to them that will save them money for buying better equipment, or saving for retirement or something genuinely useful, instead of being lighter in the pocket at the expense of how our own brains trick us.

1 hour ago, Johannes said:

It also irritates me that for some everything has to be proven somehow. That is sad because it hinders the individual a lot. As far as I know, many great things in human history were first assumed and possibly proven later.

The reverse is also true in that many assumed things were disproven. The earth was NOT flat. The Sun did NOT go around the earth and many other assumptions. But the truth was obtained by controlled study and testing falsifiability as per the Feyman video I posted on another thread, which said even the scientists start with a guess (a model they produce that would exhibit certain behaviours) and then they produce an experiment that can potentially disprove the model. If nothing they can produce disproves the model, then the model is considered accurate until such time as it is disproven.

Good examples of the latter are the different models of matter in the past 150 years, slowly arriving at increasingly accurate models.

Once a model cannot seem to be broken any longer, then it is interpreted to b pretty much fact. Maxwell's equations on electromagnetism which work to this day and let us know there are not unknown effects in our network cables and so forth.

The same equations were relied on for building the Large Hadron Collider and deducing the cabling it needed. There is no room for tweakery at that level, which is way beyond simple audio electronics, so to suggest that somehow we can detect an individual sub-atomic quark and take a picture of the path of decaying sub-atomic particles, but somehow miss things in audio, is just flights of fancy.

1 hour ago, Johannes said:

P.S. @Phobic and @Metatron don't bother replying I don't read your comments anymore.

Well, if you are going to take the Ostrich approach, it's your choice. Generally it doesn't help the Ostrich.

Edited by Metatron
  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderator
Moderator

Having received a number of reports, I have just wasted some time reading through all the posts here.

I have no intention of discussing the science, the music or the methodology. However, I am going to discuss the very few rules of this forum, which apply equally in this section.

Any further posts that include any personal attacks will result in the person posting being banned without further notice. It's hifi, not life and death. If people are incapable of treating others here with respect, they will need to find a new school playground.

I hope that is crystal clear.

  • Like 7
  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, petecallaghan said:

Ah. My Port 1 does support PoE. I will test again using Port 2 instead. 

I have re-tested on my Netgear GS108Tv3 with BJC cat5e cables been the streamer, switch and wall socket.

Test 1

Port 8 Streamer

Port 6 Router 

Test 2

Port 8 Streamer

Port 2 Router 

Test 3

Switch removed and Streamer connected to router via BJC cat5e then RJ45 wall socket then cheap 10m cat5e embedded in the walls.

Results

I could not hear any worthwhile difference between Tests 1 and 2. However I have packed the Netgear away as Test 3 sounded a bit better. I'm going to listen to this set up for a few days. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Super Wammer
1 hour ago, Paulssurround said:

Please, I would like to see everyone be respectful of each other and their views.

So would I. If someone has an experience in hifi that differs from yours, such as, you hear a difference and they don't, it doesn't mean that their hearing is defective. It just means that there is a different expectation causing a difference to be heard.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Super Wammer

I wonder why the views of those who say they hear no difference in the combinations (which, as an aside seems to be mostly Netgear users) are seen as acceptable to some readers, but the views of those who say they do hear a difference are questioned. And, of course, vice versa.

Either accept people's opinions or don't - its not logical to accept only the ones that fit with your expectations.  Expectation bias by proxy anyone?

  • Like 3
  • Upvote 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Super Wammer

And as a supplement to @sunbeamgls’s comment above, I note that Linn recommends Netgear switches.  Is it possible that their recommendation is because - amongst other things - Netgear designs are consistent between sockets, whereas perhaps a less good design isn’t? 

I use a Netgear router, and I will experiment when I get an opportunity.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The recommendation is about 13 years old. I don‘t know if it‘s up to date. Meanwhile lots of Linn dealers swear on Melco stuff, too.

🤷🏻‍♂️

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would also like to add that I found the suggestion to check out switch connections intriguing, and the critical posts on this thread did nothing to to assist an otherwise interesting topic. 

For me the outcome is that I will probably sell my switch, as I prefer listening without it, and with both NAS and streamer connected to the router instead. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, DB1328 said:

The recommendation is about 13 years old. I don‘t know if it‘s up to date. Meanwhile lots of Linn dealers swear on Melco stuff, too.

🤷🏻‍♂️

It is the same recommendation that dCS gave this year. The recommendation for a basic unmanaged switch remains a good one. Yes a dealer did recommend I tried a Melco server and I compared the top of the range one with my Mac mini: needless to say I remain a very happy user of a Mac mini (with Linn no difference, with Chord Electronics Mac mini is much better). 

Although over the top for a domestic installation, recommendations are to keep unshielded Ethernet data cable at least 16 inches away from the power cabling and only cross at right angles. For shielded Ethernet cable, the minimum distance is reduced to 4 inches. If the AC wiring is also shielded  then 2” of separation. I follow this as best as I can. 

My Mac mini is in a different room from my ADSM and both are plugged into HP switches. So I cannot easily do the required test, but I think what I tried is pretty close.
 

image.jpeg.ea3f4f8c8fecef307d4a4989bb4d6c77.jpeg

I use port 1 to connect to my LAN and port 16 for the ADSM. The connection to LAN is Connectix Cat 6a and connection to ADSM is Blue Jeans Cables Cat 5e. I cannot hear any difference if I move the ADSM to port 2. In fact the only time I have ever experienced a difference with my network setup was with an AQ Vodka patch lead and it is an experience I have no wish to repeat (great service from Linn to get everything working again). 

The Mac mini and ISP D-Link router were in a second HP switch and once again, it made no discernible difference as to which ports I used. In fact, I usually have lots of other devices into this switch as it is my central hub for my cottage. In terms of sound quality I cannot tell if the additional cables are plugged in or not.  

The HP switch has a low noise integral SMPS. If I try the AM transistor radio test then I do not pick up any noise. The power socket is on the back away from the data ports

image.jpeg.3a95aa5f29540d11d8adc0f2fec06d4d.jpeg

This might make it awkward to use in some installations. I have it sideways because if I have the front at the front the LEDs are annoying. At least it is fanless so silent in operation. 

I am not suggesting this is better solution than a NetGear. I have used switches from NetGear, TP Link and Cisco and all them work. The HP has the best build quality in my opinion, but I could not hear any change in sound quality. 

So in my system, in my environment with my ears, I hear no improvement from changes to my network as long as I avoid the AQ cable I mentioned (it may have been a duff sample). Perhaps my expectation bias is in play as I’m getting the results I would expect. 

Edited by Nestor Turton
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, sunbeamgls said:

I wonder why the views of those who say they hear no difference in the combinations (which, as an aside seems to be mostly Netgear users) are seen as acceptable to some readers, but the views of those who say they do hear a difference are questioned. And, of course, vice versa.

Either accept people's opinions or don't - its not logical to accept only the ones that fit with your expectations.  Expectation bias by proxy anyone?

I am interested to hear the results, whether a person can hear a difference or not.

‘My concern is when the people who can’t hear a difference,  insist there is no difference and try to invalidate the people that do hear a distinct improvement.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Super Wammer
5 minutes ago, Paulssurround said:

I am interested to hear the results, whether a person can hear a difference or not.

‘My concern is when the people who can’t hear a difference,  insist there is no difference and try to invalidate the people that do hear a distinct improvement.

That's my point - either accept the opinions or don't. Selective acceptance of opinion is not helpful.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Super Wammer
11 minutes ago, Paulssurround said:

My concern is when the people who can’t hear a difference,  insist there is no difference and try to invalidate the people that do hear a distinct improvement.

This is NOT what happens.

People just say that if the heard difference is significant enough, it will be heard in controlled conditions when you don't know what item is in the system, because the sound will make it evident.

If that doesn't happen, then the claim to hear it is falsified. But who knows... it might pass.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...