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Amp upgrade, no experience of pre and power


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may i then suggest the temple audio bantam one at 700 pounds from this chap 

many rave about temple audio 

this is the bumpf 

3. Temple Audio Bantam One integrated digital amp in white oak and chrome. 100 wpc using TA monoblock technology. Two years old. It contains the latest linear, regulated, supercap-based power supply. A reviewer on enjoythemusic.com preferred it to his expensive valve amps. No remote control. Condition 10/10. Looking for £700.

https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/stirling-broadcast-temple-audio-accuphase-sony.252168/

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0416/Temple_Audio_Bantam_One_Integrated_Amplifier_Review.htm

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I would say that anyone with your speakers owes it to themselves to at least try some Sugden amplification - as a Sugden/Proac user for a great many years, and having previously spent more time/money

Many thanks - that is nice to say and is much appreciated by me.  Hope you find what you need.

.....why not go the whole hog and search for a 1970’s Hitachi music centre 

21 hours ago, alboy1975 said:
  • what are advantages of pre/power, in layman's terms?
  • what do I need to consider if looking for power amp (based on roksan/speakers)?
  • have you any suggestions of an amp upgrade path based on stated system?
  • what might be good options if replacing amp

The technical advantages if you use an active preamp (for example a phono preamp used on many amps now due to the lack of a phono stage) with a separate power amp is that they each have their own power supply.   Now I am not sure of the technical advantages of this other than PS Audio discovered many years ago that putting a much larger power supply than necessary in an amp and a preamp made it sound better ... I am not sure if this is subjective or measured as better too but it provides assurity that the power supply will not be overstretched.
 

The second advantage is if you determine you want more grunt or a change of amp again in the future - if you have paired the power amp with a superb preamp then it is simple change (as opposed to an integrated where you again now need to consider the number of inputs etc.) .. Having said that in this modern age there are a plethora of fine integrated from the likes of Sugden, EAR, Musical Fidelity and a host of others.

In considering a separate pre power the things to consider when choosing the amp is the rated output into 2, 4, and 8 ohms.   You say Roksan loudspeakers I am only sort of familiar with the K2 which are 88db sensitivity .. ignoring the manufacturer when looking to match and amp to the loudspeaker - sensitivity is important.  If it is rated at less than 89db personal view is you need an amp of at least 50 watts a side and if it is rated at over 90db then a 25 watter may prove more than sufficient.  I personally look for an amp that can deliver the same (or higher) power at 2ohms as it does at 8ohms ... this provides insurance that it will cope with whatever speakers you hook up to it (assuming the sensitivity is matched)

When choosing the preamp the considerations would be do you want a built in MM and MC phono stage (or do you want to add a separate phono stage).  In this selection some preamps have superb MM phono stages but may not have a MC stage (my Audio Research is an example) but in that case to use a MC the addition of a good SUT matching the cartridge was my solution (I no longer use MCs being a Decca fan).   In addition to this the number of inputs you require 

The next problem is matching the preamp to the power amp (output of preamp matching input requirements of the power amp) - for example my preamp kicks out over 1.5 volts and my power amp is looking for 1 volt so I use a pair of Rothwell type attenuators to "match" the two.

We could go on about the different types of amp (Class A, Class AB, Class D and Class G (arcam amps and in the case of the A and AB transistors or valve amps?   I see you have put Naim on your list - we all have our own idea of what sounds right and I would recommend you compare a Nait with the Sugden A21 to see if the Naim sound is really for you.

Sorry for the length of this but I will cut short now by saying to choose your amp (be it pre power or integrated) you need to get your ears around those available in your budget range on the end of your chosen speakers and let your ears choose.   I use the Sugden A21 as a reference point and it has to sound as good or better to make me sit up and take notice.

The ideal is to hold your horses and set out on a journey - when this Covid lock down hopefully goes - to make contact with local wammers and get to visit them and hear what they use and to make a pest of yourself at dealers for demonstrations so that you are armed with as much aural information as possible to let your ears make the judgement.

Good luck in your quest.

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@uzzy and all others, really useful, thank you.  As said earlier, i'm sure (not really), that my rig knows i'm looking around and has decided to sound particularly good in the past few days.  I did find a roksan caspian m2 pwr on hifi sale for 800, and guy just along the road, but sold last month :(  I think i'll hold my fire

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this has put cat amongst pigeons, although prob stick hang tight:  https://www.vickershifi.com/products/ur150/unison-research-unico-150-valve-hybrid-integrated-amplifier

https://www.whathifi.com/unison-research/unico-150/review

In reference to the sugden a21, if i've understood @uzzy correctly, it is under powered (30w into 8ohm) for my proac d20r speakers (sensitivity: 88.5db).  Would the sugden anv50 not be a better option?  sourced one for around 3k

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43 minutes ago, alboy1975 said:

if i've understood @uzzy correctly, it is under powered (30w into 8ohm) for my proac d20r speakers (sensitivity: 88.5db). 

Sorry if I mislead you - it was not said as a solution but an amp to compare others to as a reference standpoint.  Yes it may not have the balls for your solution but it has a majestic sound quality so anything you buy (if your ears tell you the same as mine) should sound as good or better.   It provides a reference point on sound for me .. If you really love the sound then investigate more powerful Sugden Options as one of a number of choices

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@uzzy so the avn, with more power, a viable option.  Sorry to bother you, and be assured i won't simply buy if you say yes, but am i on right lines?

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8 minutes ago, alboy1975 said:

@uzzy so the avn, with more power, a viable option.  Sorry to bother you, and be assured i won't simply buy if you say yes, but am i on right lines?

Yes .. it is a viable option .. if I was in your shoes I would be looking for an amp that can deliver into any impedance load (2ohms upwards) and my ears like.   For me it is the heart of the system .. get that right and it will stay with you a long time whilst you upgrade around it.   Read the Hifi + review on it (he mentions another amp to consider "the Levardin") http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/sugden-masterclass-anv-50-integrated-amplifier/?page=2

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@uzzycheers, you have been really helpful, thanks

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30 minutes ago, alboy1975 said:

@uzzycheers, you have been really helpful, thanks

Many thanks - that is nice to say and is much appreciated by me.  Hope you find what you need.

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Before you go the pre power route (bin there, done that) remember to factor in a potentially high cost in cables. Two mains, at least one connecting lead.  I would never go back to pre power. Integrated rules OK😀

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@Minicoupeman getting that impression.  Just a guess, but imagining back in the daty, before technology evolved pre/power might have been preferred, if not only solution to gain more power, open stage.

I still have my first ever amp, bought secondhand at a market stall, keeping just in case things go tits up, but more for sentimental reasons - a jvc A-S3.

My mate, who got me into hifi, is more into vintage, he's got toshiba aurex sb77 amp and kef 105 mkII (says it's best amp he's heard, and tried a few) 

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Get an integrated DAC/Pre and Power Amp...

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7 hours ago, Bodgit said:

Get an integrated DAC/Pre and Power Amp...

.....why not go the whole hog and search for a 1970’s Hitachi music centre :rofl:

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I meant two devices, combined pre-DAC and separate power.

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Was only teasing David 

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